berthier 8mm lebel carbine info/help
1. 8mm lebel carbine mle 1916???
2. left hand of reciever:CC "J" "C" in circles
a stylized "E" 11538
"St. Etienne Mle M.16"
2. right hand of reciever:
MA C 1918
3. where the barrel meets the reciever on the top of the gun:
N N (both thr bbl and rec. are marked next one another)
4. bolt handle: "K" in a circle E 11538
5. 17 5/8 inch barrel 37 inch OAL 5 shot external fixed mag. with a trap door at the bottom to allow stripper clips/chargers to exit the mag. a "forward assist button" inside the trigger gaurd to facilitate the chargers/clips exiting the mag. severly turned down butter knife handle style bolt(almost flush with the gun) gun/bolt may be cocked without opening the action by pulling a knurled knob on the back of the bolt full length one piece stock
i think its a mle 1916 berthier lebel cavalry carbine. it has a mannlicher style in line external mag. the bore is spotless with perfect rifling and a crisp and clean muzzle. the stock is very good with some minor dings and wear. it is missing the second barrel band. bluing is about 95%, but the gun needs a good cleaning.the sling keeper is missing from the stock.
what is it worth?
do i have it ID'd right?
where can i get parts(numrich???)
where can i get stripper clips/chargers?
who has a cheap scource of mil. surplus ammo?
is it rare?
i am told the N's on the gun indicate its ok to use the "new" ammo in it???the knurled knob on the rear of the bolt turns, adjusting what?why?
thanx, mike
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
Edited by - mrmike08075 on 10/05/2002 22:42:54
2. left hand of reciever:CC "J" "C" in circles
a stylized "E" 11538
"St. Etienne Mle M.16"
2. right hand of reciever:
MA C 1918
3. where the barrel meets the reciever on the top of the gun:
N N (both thr bbl and rec. are marked next one another)
4. bolt handle: "K" in a circle E 11538
5. 17 5/8 inch barrel 37 inch OAL 5 shot external fixed mag. with a trap door at the bottom to allow stripper clips/chargers to exit the mag. a "forward assist button" inside the trigger gaurd to facilitate the chargers/clips exiting the mag. severly turned down butter knife handle style bolt(almost flush with the gun) gun/bolt may be cocked without opening the action by pulling a knurled knob on the back of the bolt full length one piece stock
i think its a mle 1916 berthier lebel cavalry carbine. it has a mannlicher style in line external mag. the bore is spotless with perfect rifling and a crisp and clean muzzle. the stock is very good with some minor dings and wear. it is missing the second barrel band. bluing is about 95%, but the gun needs a good cleaning.the sling keeper is missing from the stock.
what is it worth?
do i have it ID'd right?
where can i get parts(numrich???)
where can i get stripper clips/chargers?
who has a cheap scource of mil. surplus ammo?
is it rare?
i am told the N's on the gun indicate its ok to use the "new" ammo in it???the knurled knob on the rear of the bolt turns, adjusting what?why?
thanx, mike
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
Edited by - mrmike08075 on 10/05/2002 22:42:54
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Since no one has yet tried to answer your questions I thought that I would give it a try: 1. What is it worth? Not much,I have seen them for sale for as little as $65. Yours sounds like it is in better condition then most so lets say A $100. 2. ID? Maybe,the French also made a Special Troop Carbine and a Forestry Carbine and all three look just about the same. 3. Parts? Numrich doesn't list any. You might try Springfield Sporters,Inc. 2257 Springfield Rd. Penn Run,PA 15765 as they had some of these carbines at one time. 4. Charger clips. Sarco,Inc. 323 Union Street Stirling,NJ 07980 has these for $3.00 each. 5. Military surplus ammo? I don't know of any source of either military or commercial ammo. Most people form this cartridge from 348 Winchester empty brass. Remington stopped loading this round about 1950. 6.Is it rare? No,but it is collectable. 7. New ammo? The "new ammo" is the 8MM Lebel Model 1898 loaded with the Balle D 198 grain spitzer bullet. It replaced the 8MM Lebel Model 1886 Balle M 232 grain flat nose bullet. The new cartridge is listed as giveing 2080 fps from the carbine barrel. 8. The knurled knob? Controls the protrusion of the fireing pin. The only difference between the Carbine Model 1892 and the Carbine Model 1916 is the magazine capacity was increased from 3 shots to 5 shots. Hope that this is of some help to you. 0 -
iriquois scout: thanx!!! i found very little in my referance books, only finding some info in a 30 year old small arms of the world. i think it could be an artillery model, but it is hard to differentiate the carbine models. i cannot wait to try it out at 100yds. the bore was so nice, and the carbine so odd that i had to have it. i seem to be adding some rather odd eclectic guns to my collection. would like to pick up some accsessories to go with it though. i will try the scources you recomend. i had not thought to try sprinfield sporters, even though i have there catalog.
anybody else want to add something??? anybody got one???
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0 -
Mike---Thank you for the kind words. I just want to add some more information that you may find of intrest. As you know,your carbine is the St.Etienne Model of 1916 made at Chatellerault (MAC)in 1918. As your carbine was made at the end of the war,it may explain why it is in better shape then most. Since you plan to shoot your carbine,here is a load that has been used in several Berther rifles and carbines. Useing reformed 348 Winchester brass,load 45 grains of IMR-4895 under a Hornday .323 diameter 150 grain spire point. Overall cartridge length should be kept to 2.80 inches. I would not exceed this load as your carbine is 84 years old,may not have been made of the best materials or made with the greatest care. Also,if you look at the barrel you will see that it is very thin. Think of the Berther as the French .30-40 Krag. As with most military rifles and carbines this load will shoot about a foot high at 100 yards. Have fun and be safe. Scout 0
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