New York State gun law question
Alright, I am wondering if I can buy a replica black-powder pistol in New York State. I am 18, and as a result, I cannot get a pistol permit.
I am copying this from the NRA's Institute for Legal Action website "Guide to State Gun Laws" (bold type and underlining added for emphasis):
quote:"Pursuant to Penal Code sec. 265.00(3) the definition of a "firearm" does not include an antique firearm. An "Antique Firearm" is defined in section 265 as "any unloaded muzzle loading pistol or revolver with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system, or a pistol or revolver which uses fixed cartridges which are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
However, pursuant to Penal Code sec. 400.00(2)(g) a license is required to have, possesses, collect and carry antique pistols. The licensing statute defines "antique pistol" as: "(i) any single shot, muzzle loading pistol with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or before l898, which is not designed for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; and (ii) any replica of any pistol described in clause (i) hereof if such replica--(1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."
NY Law has interpreted this to mean, Antique rifles, shotguns and handguns, and replicas thereof, generally are exempt from the above restrictions and can be bought and possessed without a permit. (Persons who shoot muzzle loading handguns must be properly licensed.) However, to fall within the exemption, antique handguns must be unloaded and possessed without the materials to load same.
Now, I like to consider myself a person of above average intelligence. But after reading that, I am utterly dumbfounded.
Apparently the law is trying to tell me: 1)I will need a permit to own, buy or shoot a replica handgun. 2) Replica BP handguns are not considered guns, and I dont need a permit, but only if it's unloaded 3) Replica BP handguns are not guns, and are always totally exempt from permit requirements. 2)If I shoot it (as opposed to using it to crack walnuts) I will have to be licensed. And finally, 3)It will have to be unloaded and possessed without the materials to load it to be legal.
Can anyone for the love of God please figure this out for me, or at least point me in the direction of someone or something that can? I feel like I'm reading a Bill Clinton deposition here!
I am copying this from the NRA's Institute for Legal Action website "Guide to State Gun Laws" (bold type and underlining added for emphasis):
quote:"Pursuant to Penal Code sec. 265.00(3) the definition of a "firearm" does not include an antique firearm. An "Antique Firearm" is defined in section 265 as "any unloaded muzzle loading pistol or revolver with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system, or a pistol or revolver which uses fixed cartridges which are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
However, pursuant to Penal Code sec. 400.00(2)(g) a license is required to have, possesses, collect and carry antique pistols. The licensing statute defines "antique pistol" as: "(i) any single shot, muzzle loading pistol with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or before l898, which is not designed for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; and (ii) any replica of any pistol described in clause (i) hereof if such replica--(1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."
NY Law has interpreted this to mean, Antique rifles, shotguns and handguns, and replicas thereof, generally are exempt from the above restrictions and can be bought and possessed without a permit. (Persons who shoot muzzle loading handguns must be properly licensed.) However, to fall within the exemption, antique handguns must be unloaded and possessed without the materials to load same.
Now, I like to consider myself a person of above average intelligence. But after reading that, I am utterly dumbfounded.
Apparently the law is trying to tell me: 1)I will need a permit to own, buy or shoot a replica handgun. 2) Replica BP handguns are not considered guns, and I dont need a permit, but only if it's unloaded 3) Replica BP handguns are not guns, and are always totally exempt from permit requirements. 2)If I shoot it (as opposed to using it to crack walnuts) I will have to be licensed. And finally, 3)It will have to be unloaded and possessed without the materials to load it to be legal.
Can anyone for the love of God please figure this out for me, or at least point me in the direction of someone or something that can? I feel like I'm reading a Bill Clinton deposition here!
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It's no wonder that a Clinton still got elected there. Actually, if I read it right, you can possess an antique firearm only if it is completely unusable. I think....
My sincerest recommendation is that you leave NY as I did. With gun registration and all the other baloney, I knew I'd not be a happy camper. The real problem with this quagmire is that you open yourself up to l'interpretation du jour of either a police officer or a district attorney who can't find his own derriere with both hands but wants yours in the hot seat.
Since you mention replica, it's not really an antique (1898). Wait until you can legally possess a firearm and then have at it.
Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
Edited by - mballai on 09/24/2002 06:27:400 -
I wish TrinityScrimshaw would chime in on this but I don't suspect he will since I haven't seen him here lately. I posed this same question to him while I was working as an investigator at Fort Drum due to the fact that he has a wealth of NY state law knowledge and also because he was my supervisor at the time. He explained to me that you can own/purchase one of these BP replicas so long as you never load it or shoot it. It takes a pistol permit to do that as he explained to me. I've never had the fancy to own a BP pistol so I can only speak from experience as a former NY CCW holder who was (and still is) interested only in the traditional semi-auto or revolver. 0 -
A repro percussion revolver can be purchased and possessed w/o licence as long as you dont have the powder, caps and balls.
About 10 years back, I took a German visitor upstate NY to buy
a 36 Pocket Navy replica with no problems.0 -
v35 is correct on this. I have two cap & ball revolvers. A colt 1851 navy reissue that is NIB an unfired, and a Navy arms 58 remington. The 51 Navy has never been on my permit. The Remington wasn't added to my permit until I bought a cartridge conversion cylinder for it. As long as you don't have the components to load it NY considers it a non weapon. I had a NYS Trooper tell me as long as I didn't have the correct caliber lead balls I'd be in compliance with the law. My concern was owning a percussion rifle would put me in violation of the law by puting powder and caps in my possesion.
If your serious about starting a collection of these guns I encourage you. They are great conversation pieces. Beside when you turn 21 you'll have a nice bunch of shooters. But, if I were you I'd avoid the brass frame models if you plan on eventually doing any serious shooting.
Woods0 -
FWIW, the age thing might be an issue. You can always find some trustworthy licensed person to hold onto a purchase until you hit 21. My take on this is that you need a license/permit for having something you can shoot, not necessarily own. Find a lawyer familiar with this code if you have any doubts. No need for you to visit the Graybar Hotel if you like to shoot.
Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead0 -
Well thank you all, apparently my suspicions were realized.
I guess in the great State of New York, even if it's utterly unconcealable, has to be manually loaded with black powder, has half the range of a normal pistol, and the model is 150 odd years old, is still a death machine of untold proportions, only allowable for those old enough to get legally drunk before they wield one.
The Army's going to spend thousands of dollars training me in everything from the M-16 A2, to the M240 Bravo .308 machine gun, to the Javelin HEAT anti-tank missile, and yes, even the M9 Beretta, undeniably the least dangerous weapon in the Army's arsenal.
Yet the great State of New York wont even trust me with a 150-year old muzzleloading forefather of the Beretta.
And you tell me why I'm supposed to respect, trust, and gladly pledge my tax dollars to these "people".
Edited by - Bullzeye on 09/24/2002 12:23:210 -
Yep, your tattoed.
No evil killing blackpowder machine for you!
Enjoy the free play time with the goverment owned play toys & the free ammo.
The best part of NY laws is who you brown nose. The elite get anything they want!.
But you, the ordinary citzen, you are SOL.
Unless your last name is Broomberg,Clinton etc...
Walte0 -
We are dealers here in NY and you guys have it right. You may buy a blackpowder pistol w/out a permit if you do not plan to shoot it. If you plan to shoot it then it must be on a permit. Planning to shoot it I guess would mean possessing powder and ammunition to fire it with.
MARINO FIREARMS INC.
607-637-3573
NY STATE
"Over 300 guns in stock ready to rock n roll "0 -
MFI:
Your business has a 607 area code? I take it you're in the south central part of the state. I've got a place out in Norwich in Chenango County. Great area for hunting.0 -
The sad thing is that the idiots who write such a laws do expect us to be legally old enough to get drunk so we're too stoned to care that they are in office
Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead0 -
We're in Hancock, NY right on the PA border about 50 miles from Norwich. My fly tying man is from there. Stop and see me Bullseye.
MARINO FIREARMS INC.
607-637-3573
NY STATE
"Over 300 guns in stock ready to rock n roll "0
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