.308 vs. .308
What's the difference between .308 NATO (M1-A) and .308 Winchester? I know they cost about the same, but I don't know what ballistic advantages one has over the other.
Thanks
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"Live by the three 'R's: Respect, Responsibility and Residuals."
Thanks
www.ebsart.com
"Live by the three 'R's: Respect, Responsibility and Residuals."
0
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nothing that i am aware of.
glen e nuinez0 -
They are the same. The 7.62X51 NATO was adopted by the United States in 1954 to replace the .30-06 as both a rifle and machinegun cartridge. The 7.62 case is simular to the .30-06, but shortend around 12mm. The M14 Rifle was adopted in 1957 and the M14 replaced the BAR, Garand, M1 Carbine, and the M3 submachinegun...or at least it was supposed to fill all of those roles! Standard military lodings are 150gr FMJ ball and 168gr. match. .308 Winchester is the commercial designation for the 7.62X51 and was introduced by Winchester in 1952 and I believe that their model 70 and model 88
were the first rifles chambered for this round.
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Mark T. Christian0 -
So the rounds would be totally interchangeable in any .308-chambered rifle?
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"Live by the three 'R's: Respect, Responsibility and Residuals."0 -
I thought there were pressure or slight headspace differences between the two loadings? Is this incorrect?
Edited by - sundowner on 09/13/2002 00:08:310 -
compairing cases between the two, Both will have the same O.D. dimensions. The military case may be thicker in some places through out its length. Military ammo is usualy full metal jacket (fmj) ball ammo. Also, military ammo will be loaded to high pressures to function automatics reliabley. The military case may hold the same or less powder due to the potentialy thicker case. Carefull when hand loading military brass with modern reloading data, For your modern 308 win. rifle.
308 win., factory ammo is made for hunting such as pointed soft point (PSP), They load this ammo for accuracy first, Which is usualy near max pressure. Both like a 150 grain bullet, Or close to it such as 147 gr FMJ.
If your looking for some ammo to shoot in a M1-A either one should work fine, As long as the condition or the rifle is safe, And you sellect a good quality brand of ammo. I'd stay away from the cheap stuff, Your asking for trouble.
My 2 cents
hotrodusa0 -
These rounds are NOT the same. They are shaped virtually identically, but the 7.62 NATO is loaded to a lower max prssure level; in some guns this makes a difference. Specifically, I have been told that 7.62 NATO is safe in my 2A1 Enfield, but not .308. There may also be some small difference in shoulder angle.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf0 -
Thanks a LOT for the feedback guys, I guess my question should now be more specific: Will either .308 round be safe and function well in a new M1-A?
(thanks again)
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"Live by the three 'R's: Respect, Responsibility and Residuals."0 -
1st, jonk gave you the straight story. While the two rounds are essentially identical dimensionally - they are loaded a little different. However, the M1A is designed/built to accomodate commercial .308 Winchester ammunition in addition to its original loading of 7.62 NATO.
2nd, referring to these rounds as quote: either .308 will lead to confusion. The 7.62X51 NATO is a different caliber (albiet only slightly different) than the .308 Winchester. Simply calling them .308 because of bullet diameter could cause you to confuse the truncated .308 Win. with the .300 Weatherby or even the MIGHTY 30-06, both of which also use a .308 diam. bullet.
I know, I know, the .308 Winchester is commonly called just the .308, but when you start talking about "either .308" it begins to get confusing.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis0 -
They are the same, however the the military dimension are loaded to certain tolerances that allow for use in machineguns and adverse conditions...
Some military guns won't function with all commercial ammunition, however its safe to fire military ammunition in almost all commercial guns....
According to the paperwork I recieved with my M1A, it was headspaced at 1.633 according to current GI Specs, and its safe to use good commercially made ammo suchs as federal or PMC that meets GI spects.
If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !0 -
Thanks Shootist3006, I wasn't sure about the M1-A's ability to use both. Would I be correct to presume that .308 commonly refers to .308Win, and that I should specify .308N if I'm talking about the NATO round?
If you go with a store-bought round, which .308 (Win or NATO) has better ballistics?
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"Live by the three 'R's: Respect, Responsibility and Residuals."0 -
Yes, .308 normally means .308 Winchester. I have never heard anyone use the phrase .308N (or .308Nato), the Nato round is commonly called the 7.62 NATO.
quote:If you go with a store-bought round, which .308 (Win or NATO) has better ballistics?
The answer is
YES
Depending on what you determine is 'better' and what the load is and what the bullet weight is and what the target is - either could be better - the question is better than WHAT????
As an example, a Hornady 150 gr. .308 Light Magnum is faster than most (or maybe all) other .308 loads but the Remington 165 gr Premier Boat Tail is one of the most accurate commercial .308 loadings.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis0 -
I suppose I brought that upon myself Is there a site that has ballistics data for common rifle calibers/manufactures?
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"Live by the three 'R's: Respect, Responsibility and Residuals."0 -
Try http://stevespages.com/page8b.htm
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