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I can't sleep, too many 8mm questions!

DENWA
As I have mentioned before, I have a Turk mauser that has been choped and recrowned to 24", bent bolt and a cool new cammo stock with scope rings and the whole 9 yds, shoots 1/2" groups at 50yds with surplus ammo.....

then the other day at the range a friend gave me his headspace gauges...the NOgo gauge went in with NO resistance! I tried it on two other rifles that were fine and even tried to switch out bolts on mine with no luck.

I have done all the work myself and now I am seriously considering the reamer.

Consider..

1) I really want to do something crazy. 8mm-06AI
2) Can't find reloading dies, but LEE website says if you send 3 fireformed cases they will make collet dies. Any one else make them?

3) DO the feed rails in the magazine need to be altered?
4) Where can you find load data or do you just use the 8mm-06 and work up?
5) what other problems do you forsee? Magazine length looks fine.
6) What other options in cartridge do I have, safely?


thanks for your wisdom.
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Comments

6 comments

Date Votes
  • barto
    denwa-
    i would try a field guage before i gave up on the 8mm unless you actually want an' 06.
    also remember the mauser guages are approx. .003" longer than sammi guages (so ive been told by knowledgable folks).
    barto
    ps- there are also 2 different guage angles in case you arent aware.

    the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
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  • Der Gebirgsjager
    It sounds like maybe you want to ream out the chamber regardless--but perhaps your 8mm is not out of headspace boundries; or maybe just a little bit. Here's a couple of things to check out. First, examine your fired brass carefully. That's what will really tell the tale--does it show any signs of undue stretching, cracking, or incipient case head separation? If you have been shooting only military surplus, it is possible that you might not see any of these signs on once-fired-throw-it-away berdan primed brass. But, if you are a reloader, your brass should become noticably unserviceable around the third reloading and firing and show some anomaly in the area just forward of the case head or in the area of the neck. If this is not the case, then your rifle's headspace may be marginal, but o.k. Next, to properly check the headspace with a go/no-go/field set of gauges proceed as follows: place the rifle in a padded bench vise or cleaning cradle and remove the bolt. Thoroughly clean and dry the chamber. Then, completely field strip the bolt so that nothing remains except the bolt body. This includes removing the extractor and it's ring. If you don't remove the ring, when you re-insert the bolt body into the receiver they have a way of swiveling around and making it very difficult to get the bolt back out. Thoroughly clean and dry the face of the bolt. Re-insert the bolt, and insert the clean and dry no-go gauge into the chamber. Slide the bolt forward gently and start it downward, but exert little or no pressure. The handle should drop downward primarily of it's own weight. You should not force it closed as if it was a cartridge. Ideally, it should stop 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch short of closing all the way; you can observe a space between the square root of the bolt handle and the side of the receiver where it rests when fully closed. If you have previously attempted to check the headspace with the bolt fully assembled and inserted it against the resistance of the mainspring the gauge may have been damaged and not read properly; you will need to obtain a new one. That is a maybe; you can check it with a mike against the original specs. Of course, the go is supposed to go, so no point in covering it here. The field gauge is a little longer than the no-go, usually .003", and is an expedient used by the military to determine if a chamber is still suitable for combat use. It permits headspace in excess of civilian or SAMMI specs., but is still considered sufficiently safe and useable by the military. Procedure for use is the same as the no-go. To answer some of your questions, as I posted before, I have done several of the 8mm-8mm-06 conversions, but not an AI. It wasn't very long ago I had a customer propose that I make him one, and I didn't care since he was going to buy the reamer, but after reviewing the ballistics of the regular 8mm-06 he decided that there wasn't much to be gained with the regular version loaded to about maximum. As I already had the 8mm-06 reamer he saved some money. But, if that's what you want, why not? Several die makers will custom make dies. Another is RCBS. Lee makes a good product, and they are usually the most reasonable price-wise. The feed rails do not have to be altered for the standard 8mm-06 conversion, and I doubt if it would be necessary for the AI conversion. If so, not very much. Yes, to some extent you will be on your own for working up a load suitable for your converted rifle. You should start at 10% below the max. for the regular 8mm-06 and slowly work up. There are some published loads for the AI--one is found in "Handloader's Manual Of Cartridge Conversions", John J. Donnelly, pg. 866: 150 gr. Spire, 55.5 gr. IMR 4064. I forsee no other problems with this conversion, assuming that it is done properly by a qualified person. Other cartridge options? Too many to count if you want to rebarrel. But, you run into the question, "Is it financially practical, considering all of the other work and expense necessary, to turn a military Mauser into a first rate sporting rifle, vs. buying a commercially made sporter in a desirable caliber?" Using the issue barrel--your practical choices are pretty much limited to what we've covered. My final word--there isn't much wrong with the original 8x57mm cartridge when loaded propery and if your rifle's headspace is o.k.
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  • DENWA
    Mr. Der thanks for the very informative post.

    Yes the bolt was stripped of the extractor when it was headspaced.

    It offered NO resistance when the bolt closed.

    The problem I am running into is the cases of my remington brass are stretching considerably, When they get trimmed a considerable ammount of material has to be removed. When using surplus ammo, the firing pin contacts the primer and the round moves forward enough not to ignite the primer. The same rnd will work fine when restruck in another rifle.

    two more questions.

    1) Do you use the water soluable cutting oil for your reamers? I can't seem to find it near me.

    2) If I go the 8mm-06 route, could I just put my 8mm Mauser decapping pin in my 30-06 die and use my 8x57 bullet seater die? Just asking cause I need to start saving some money for christmas...

    thanks for your wisdom
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  • woodsrunner
    You could also take a cheaper route, buy new brass and some lead bullets. Load up some light loads. On future reloadings use whatever bullet you like but neck size only. Just fire form the brass to your chamber and shoot as normal. Your loads wouldn't work in any other gun unless it too had excess headspace, but that usually isn't a problem. I had an old spanish 95 mauser I did this with for several years.

    Woods
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  • Der Gebirgsjager
    Woodsrunner's approach will work. You will have, in effect, your own "wildcat". The trick would be to use an initial load when originally fireforming that will not ruin your brass the first time around. I am not sure about your idea with the reloading dies--we use RCBS dies made for the purpose. The .30-06 sizer might not allow passage of an 8mm expander ball, as it is machined to allow the brass to be expanded to .30-06 dimensions. I use high sulpher cutting oil, or Brownell's "Do Drill". It sounds as though you do have a chamber problem. Best wishes.
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  • woodsrunner
    To fireform I'd make some gallery loads with some .32 caliber lead balls or buckshot on top of a couple grains of fast pistol powder with a kapok filler to hold the powder at the back of the case.

    Woods
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