Spanish Mauser Model 1916 - 308 WIN.
I recently acquired a Spanish small ring Mauser chambered for 308. The weapon is in very good condition and the head space checks ok. I have been told two different things about this weapon. "You should have no problem shooting standard factory loads, just stay away from high pressure stuff" and "You would have to be out of your mind to shoot this thing! If you must shoot it, use a substantially reduced powder charge" Which is it? Factory loads or wall hanger?
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The powders in the cartridge the rifle was designed for is considerd old. The large ring rifles do not have a power issue the small ring do. Have a gunsmith check out the rifle and make a determination. Each rifle is going to be different. My 2 cents. 0 -
Old references show 7x57 pressure levelsapproved by Dupont and Hercules for handloading to be at 53000 psi maximum which is at or above .308 levels.The rumor of the '95 Spanish Mauser's weakness when converted to 308 has been around for some time. The NRA may have come up with a definitive evaluation on it. If I were to do a lot of shooting with it, I'd buy a .308 no-go headspace gage and check it every 100 rounds or so. The Japanese 7.7mm when converted to 30-06 will allow the no-go gage to enter after 500 rounds of M-1 ball. Proper headspace is restored with a new bolt. This conversion, performed by US Govt arsenals,was for limited service by the Korean Service Corps. Unlike your conversion, the 7.7mm to '06 modification went up in power by 10,000 psi.working pressure and the action wasn't designed for it. 0 -
Thanks all, I sincerely appreciate the imput. Shooting will be somewhat limited. Thanks for the no go gage idea. I'll get one. 0 -
RD-Pressures have been measured in many ways and not all are compatible. Given that the rifle is quite old, and metalurgy then was not up to today's standards, it would be very wise to shoot lower pressure ammo in your rifle. I used to have one of those Spanish Mausers and I used starting loads in the ammo I shot. Put several hundred rounds down range then traded it for a different rifle. Not a lot of heavy use, but it was real fun and there were no problems.You can probably use factory ammo, but expect wear. This is where using the go-no go gauges is handy. Or, keep close tabs on your brass. If you see stretching occurring, then the headspace is probably getting too big and you should retire the rifle.The small ring Mausers are perfect for rounds like 7x57, 6.5x55, and .257 Roberts. Midway sells decent barrels for these actions, as does Shaw. All inexpensive rounds to load and shoot and performance is fine. If you end up rebarrrelling sometime in the future, you may wish to consider one of these fine rounds. 0 -
JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH, ONLY TIME TO USE A NO-GO GAUGE IS WHEN REBARRELING OR RECHAMBERING, YOU USE A 'FIELD GUAGE' TO CHECK SERVICEABLITY. JUST BECAUSE AN OLD GUN WILL CLOSE ON A NO-GO GUAGE DOESN'T MEAN IT IS UNSAFE TO FIRE (IT IS IF IT WILL CLOSE ON A FIELD GUAGE). 0 -
Is the gun re-chambered to .308 Winchester? Or was it re-chambered to 7.62 NATO? Most of the Spanish small rings were re-arsenaled to 7.62 NATO. I do not know if the rifles were re-proofed at 7.62 NATO levels after conversion.There are some differences between the cartridges, although there are plenty of "experts" out there who will say they are the same. In fact, the .308 was an outgrowth of the development of the 7.62 NATO. Attempting to meet the military's specs for the 7.62 NATO, Winchester decided to introduce the .308 as a sporting cartridge. At the time it was released, they were meeting the performance specs, but could not keep pressure down to the maximum pressure specs. Nevertheless, they recognized they had a good design and released it commercially. Later on, they came closer to the original military specifications, and the 7.62 NATO was adopted.SAAMI sets the specs for .308 Winchester, and NATO the specs for the military 7.62 NATO round. There are some differences, slight differences dimensionally in the cartridge sizing and brass thickness, and the NATO max pressure is lower. (Please note your rifle may even have been re-chambered and re-proofed for the 7.62 CETME round, which is has a lower max pressure spec than either the .308 or the 7.62.)I believe the Spanish small rings were proof tested originally at pressures approximately equal to maximum SAMMI specs for .308 Winchester. And the earlier comment about the way pressure is measured is correct. The same maximum pressure can place more of less stress on an action depending on the pressure curve. In other words, if the curve is steep, and max pressure is maintained over a longer period of time, substantially greatrer stress can be caused compared to a shallow curve, which gradually approaches max pressure and reaches it only briefly. If you repeatedly shoot SAAMI max spec .308 ammo in what is in fact a 7.62 NATO chamber, you face the double whammy of proof level loads in a slightly out of dimension chamber,assuming the headspace was checked with .308 Winchester guages. When you are pushing a rifle near the limit of it pressure handling capacity, even small problems can be magnified into bigger ones. I recommend you determine the correct chambering, and get the correct headspace gauges. Anytime you shoot the gun, it is a simple matter to check headspace. And be on the lookout for any other signs of abnormally high pressures, like a sticky bolt on extraction, or signs the primer is flowing. If you see any such signs, stop shooting immediately and have the gun examined by a competent gunsmith who knows the difference betweem the .308 Winchester and the 7.62 NATO, or who is willing at least to check the specs out for himself.Take care.redcedars 0 -
A sincere thanks to all, I really appreciate all of the information and the time it took to relay it.RDWilley 0 -
RD:Hope the info helps. If you get the chance, why not post a note later on what it was actually chambered for, how it shoots and stands up to the modern loading?redcedars 0
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