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Is it possible to seat a bullet out too far?

257izmycal
Is it possible to seat a bullet out too far? I have a Ruger Mark II in 7X57 Mauser and the bullet is only engaging the case neck by about .150-.160. The bullet is about .030 off the lands and I want the bullet to be just off the lands in the rifle but is the bullet deep enough in the case? It is a 140 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip.

Thanks for the input in advance.

257

You're a statistic whether you want to be or not.
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • jonk
    Hmmm...

    Yes. No. Depends.

    If it seats deeply enough that it doesn't fall out, and if it has enough to grip the case but DOESN"T get rammed into the riflign preventing closing of the bolt, then no trouble. In practice however, I find that seating the bullet out so far often results in one of these problems.

    "...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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  • Kdub
    If you use your magazine type bolt action rifle for hunting, the max cartridge OAL (over all length) is controlled by the max OAL accepted by the magazine without jamming. This sometimes means you can't seat the bullets out as far as you like for standoff of the rifling, but that's the way it is. Either you have a single shot with bullets seated out further than capable of being stored in the magazine, or you load to have a repeater with stored rounds.

    Ruger M77 MkII's do not have a free bore, unless: a) there is a different than factory barrel installed, or b) the throat is washed out from excessive firings.

    I have a half dozen or so Ruger rifles and they all shoot fairly well with my handloads. The loads will have a minimum of one bullet diameter of bullet seating depth (less the bevel of the boattail, if used) and/or at least .030" magazine well clearance. The land standoff will be whatever it will be.

    Keep off the Ridgeline
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  • 257izmycal
    Kdub,
    The magazine will allow the bullets to be seated this far out with plenty of clearance.

    Thanks for the replies thus far!

    257

    You're a statistic whether you want to be or not.
    0
  • Kdub
    OK, 257 -

    That being the case, I would strongly recommend you try for at least a .250" seating depth to assure good neck tension on the bullet and for bullet alignment with the bore. The 7x57 has sufficient neck that you could seat down to the .284" depth, which would be best. If you really want to extend the bullet as far as possible, a further recommendation would be to acquire a bullet runout gauge to determine if the bullets are truly centered. Then, you'll have to be very careful in handling them so as not to knock them askew in the case.

    Keep off the Ridgeline
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  • Der Gebirgsjager
    [:D]
    Starting off with the grin face, so you don't take offense--but this question (for someone who has been reloading for awhile) is almost a joke. Of course you can seat a bullet out too far. The limit is where the bullet engages the lands of the rifling. If the cartridge's overall length is longer than that point, the bullet will usually be shoved back into the case from the bolt compressing the bullet against the lands; or if the crimp is too heavy, the bolt won't close. Is this a good place to be? Absolutely not....because your pressure rises dramatically. Why? Because a bullet needs a little room to jump start out of the case when fired before hitting the lands and squeezing down to the minimum size needed to pass down the bore. All reloading manual loads take this into account, and the load(s) you will derive from their pages are not created with the bullet touching the lands; or even worse, jammed back into the case against a crimp. This all takes place in the chamber's throat, which is the unrifled area forward of the case mouth and before the lands begin. The best way to determine the proper bullet seating depth for your individual rifle is to make a dummy cartridge (no primer, no bullet) with a bullet seated in place with a very light crimp. Insert the dummy into your chamber, close the bolt, and let the lands push the bullet back to the contact point. Now seat the bullet 1/8 inch deeper and make the "for real" cartridges to that overall length. You will, of course, need to do this over again for different bullets with different nose shapes. You have probably heard of S.A.M.M.I., which organization determines and standardizes all of the pertinent measurements and pressures for factory production cartridges. It is always safe to go with their data, as it is created for the average rifle; but for a cartridge custom to your rifle go with the above procedure. Yes, I did read your post, and I understand that with your particular load your bullet is just "hanging in there". I thought you needed to hear this info anyway; and if this doesn't work for you perhaps you have a chamber that has too long a throat; or you need to abandon your 140 gr. bullet for a heavier one which will be longer. Good luck in solving your problem.[:)]
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  • JustC
    without disagreeing with Der Gebirgsjager,..and he is right, let me say this. Your throat is long and you will not be able to make that bullet contact the rifling. However,..the bset accuracy is acheived when just touching the rifling. That being said,..you must be sure to not boost pressure to much (which is a major consideration when touching the lands). IF you can seat the bullet properly and still touch the lands,..you will get the best accuracy (most of the time). Some barrels like the bullet to jump .020" or even .030" to the lands. I seat mine at just at or even .001"-.003" into the lands as a starting point. Then once I figure up a good load,..maybe try them back off the lands a bit. I find most of my barrels prefer the bullet at the lands. However,....I RARELY EVER get anywhere near a max load due to the increased pressure situation,..before I get the accuracy load. NEVER EVER EVER try a max load right off the bat when seated at the lands!!!!!!!!!!! This could be dangerous!!!

    My 30-06 M77 MK II when I worked the load for 125gr NBT's only had ~.010-.015" of the bearing surface to be grabbed by the case,..however the fact that the bullet was into the rifling allowed it to be squared and true to the bore,..and also provided the necessary tension to give consistent and accurate results as well as feeding from the magazine. This is due to the short bullet length. Also,..the relatively low bullet wieght for the caliber allows me to not boost pressures too high.

    This is a very thin line,..and should be approached with caution. I inspect EVERY case for flattened primers,..ejector marks,..and even a slightly sticky bolt lift. When ANY SINGLE sign shows up,..BACK OFF the load and never ever shoot the next bullet with that charge.

    So,..if you wish to seat at the lands,..and if your rifle will allow it,..you must be careful and watch for pressure signs. I would not do this with an older rifle (military design) or any questionable firearm. But if you can acheive a rifling contact while maintianing adequate neck tension,..then do so with caution. You will see some great groups,..but start LOW in the charge range and work up. You will find that several grains UNDER max will yield the accuracy you want. This is the way all benchrest shooters load their bullets,..but as you may guess,..this is an accuracy only game and not always a funtional alternative. leaving a bullet stuck in the rifling and dumping the charge in the action when removing an unfired round can occur.

    Get the Sinclair seating depth tool for $18 and use it. It will give you very accurate readings on how to set at the lands without forcing them into the lands. Or try the split case method.

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?
    0
  • 257izmycal
    My question has been answered.

    Thanks, 257

    You're a statistic whether you want to be or not.
    0
  • MIKE WISKEY
    your ruger is throated for factory ammo, take a look at a 175 gn factory load. this will be about .250" longer than a factory 139 gn load.
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  • ATF
    I had a Swedish Mauser that you could not seat the bullet out far enough to come anyways near the lands?

    [:)]

    standard.jpg

    Why is it that our children can't read a Bible in school, but they
    can in prison?

    ATF,Eagle Guns
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  • Permanently deleted user
    quote:Originally posted by JustC
    without disagreeing with Der Gebirgsjager,..and he is right, let me say this. Your throat is long and you will not be able to make that bullet contact the rifling. However,..the bset accuracy is acheived when just touching the rifling. That being said,..you must be sure to not boost pressure to much (which is a major consideration when touching the lands). IF you can seat the bullet properly and still touch the lands,..you will get the best accuracy (most of the time). Some barrels like the bullet to jump .020" or even .030" to the lands. I seat mine at just at or even .001"-.003" into the lands as a starting point. Then once I figure up a good load,..maybe try them back off the lands a bit. I find most of my barrels prefer the bullet at the lands. However,....I RARELY EVER get anywhere near a max load due to the increased pressure situation,..before I get the accuracy load. NEVER EVER EVER try a max load right off the bat when seated at the lands!!!!!!!!!!! This could be dangerous!!!

    My 30-06 M77 MK II when I worked the load for 125gr NBT's only had ~.010-.015" of the bearing surface to be grabbed by the case,..however the fact that the bullet was into the rifling allowed it to be squared and true to the bore,..and also provided the necessary tension to give consistent and accurate results as well as feeding from the magazine. This is due to the short bullet length. Also,..the relatively low bullet wieght for the caliber allows me to not boost pressures too high.

    This is a very thin line,..and should be approached with caution. I inspect EVERY case for flattened primers,..ejector marks,..and even a slightly sticky bolt lift. When ANY SINGLE sign shows up,..BACK OFF the load and never ever shoot the next bullet with that charge.

    So,..if you wish to seat at the lands,..and if your rifle will allow it,..you must be careful and watch for pressure signs. I would not do this with an older rifle (military design) or any questionable firearm. But if you can acheive a rifling contact while maintianing adequate neck tension,..then do so with caution. You will see some great groups,..but start LOW in the charge range and work up. You will find that several grains UNDER max will yield the accuracy you want. This is the way all benchrest shooters load their bullets,..but as you may guess,..this is an accuracy only game and not always a funtional alternative. leaving a bullet stuck in the rifling and dumping the charge in the action when removing an unfired round can occur.

    Get the Sinclair seating depth tool for $18 and use it. It will give you very accurate readings on how to set at the lands without forcing them into the lands. Or try the split case method.

    why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
    Got Balistics?


    This is the best answer in this thread[8D] I too, seat my bullets backed off .001-.003"...and I too have found this to be the most accurate seating depth. No offense to the Doc, but I think 1/8" is too far back.

    Eric

    All American Arms Company

    Veteran Owned and Operated
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