Fireing Handgun Underwater
I`m sure somewhere this subject has been discussed but, I don`t know where. Just for kicks and laughs what would happen if a person fired, say, a Ruger Vaquero (strong action)in 45 Colt cal underwater? How far would the bullet travel and would it have much for velocity? Would the revolver hold together? I am sure there are a number of variables that could be considered. Let`s say, the gun is in three feet of water with factory loads. What would take place? I know this is not recommened and this is for conversation only, don`t try it.[:D][:D]
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Try this site www.loadammo.com/Topics/May02.htm 0 -
I would not advise firing a gun underwater. Although I doubt you'd have any "major" problems with pistol rounds you might have problems with high powered rifle rounds as the article Mr. Snow posted indicated. Of course a revolver would probably be the least likely to exhibit any problems since the breach of the barrel is open and can vent gasses but bolt actions or delayed gas operated actions would probably exhibit the most problems. 
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In my efforts to make a better spearguns I examined using explosive propellant for spearing fish. Besides laws limiting the use, it just doesn't work out for under water use. Rubber bands (5/8" and 3/4" diameter and special compounds) were best for propelling the spear.
However for shark protection a bang stick (explosive propellant) works very well.
"If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."0 -
the frogs experimented with this for years. came to the conclusion that for the effort and low performance, it wasnt worth pursuing. they figured if they were close enough to where a bullet could be fired, why not just go slash their throats? it was cheaper to use a k-bar. btw....they use to tie a gun into a baggy to avoid those water and powder problems. the air lasted just long enough for the burn sequence then the gun flooded. one shot, that was it.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
Thought I read somewhere that you could do this with Glocks...
Sounds like a bad idea to me. The gun would act like it had a partially obstructed barrel, would it not?0 -
yep....fps is reduced to worthless speeds and if the water current is strong straight flight is impossible. speers work better. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 44mag
I`m sure somewhere this subject has been discussed but, I don`t know where. Just for kicks and laughs what would happen if a person fired, say, a Ruger Vaquero (strong action)in 45 Colt cal underwater? How far would the bullet travel and would it have much for velocity? Would the revolver hold together? I am sure there are a number of variables that could be considered. Let`s say, the gun is in three feet of water with factory loads. What would take place? I know this is not recommened and this is for conversation only, don`t try it.[:D][:D]
Seems like I remember seeing that done on a TV series, Sea Hunt, starring Lloyd Bridges, circa 1957 or so. It was filmed in a way that looked real, like they tested it.
Fred0 -
I see this kind of post from time to time and I just can't imagine why anyone would want to shoot under water. Also don't forget how sound travels under water. I am happy to say my hearing is very good and wouldn't want to subject my ears to that kind of abuse. Do yourself a big favor and forget about this question and my advise to you is DON'T TRY IT! 0 -
I remember reading where you could fire a gun from just below the water line (and shooting out of the water) BUT the barrel had to be full of water, I remember them mentioning that if it was partially full of water it could result in a bulged barrel. I can't find the source so take it for what it's worth...
Good post though - for entertainment purposes only! [;)]0 -
Lenny McGill did a video and shot several types of pistols underwater in his backyard swimming pool. He filmed from both under the water and above, and the shots were pretty loud as heard from above.
As mentioned above, the barrel needs to be full of water before the shot is fired. The tests showed the bullets traveled only about 6 feet or so before sinking to the bottom, and double hearing protection is highly recommended.
"Never let school interfere with your education"0 -
Most firearms will function for one shot but accuracy and penetration are very poor. In an actual test a 1911 Government Model was fired in a tank filled with water using a standard .45 Ball service cartridge. When fired the pistol kicked up quite a bit of water and the bullet went through a 7/8" wooden plank before it dented another plank and then dropped to the bottom of the tank. The fired case did not eject from the pistol. The problem with firing a rifle underwater is compounded by the much longer barrel. If you fill up a .30 Caliber barrel which is 24 inches long with water you are adding a tremendous amount of extra weight that the bullet has to push out of the barrel before it can clear the muzzel. The weight of all this water can be easily equal to two or three times the weight of the bullet itself and this can produce enormous pressures, probably above proof loadings and perhaps enough to damage the firearm itself. I'd leave this one alone!
Mark T. Christian0 -
quote:Originally posted by trstone
Thought I read somewhere that you could do this with Glocks...
Sounds like a bad idea to me. The gun would act like it had a partially obstructed barrel, would it not?
http://www.glockfaq.com/generalinfo.htm
Can I fire my Glock underwater?
Just about any handgun will fire underwater -- at least once. :-) However, firing underwater is NOT recommended because it can have devastating effects on the pistol and the shooter -- a potentially dangerous activity that should only be utilized by trained personnel wearing proper equipment for protection against potential pressure wave effects of underwater detonation. The shock/pressure waves in water can really damage internal organs (ever heard of lithotripsy?). Shooting a pistol underwater can lead to property damage, serious bodily injury or even death.
NOTE: Glock, Inc., specifically disclaims any and all liability from anyone performing or attempting to perform underwater firing with a Glock pistol -- you do so at your own risk.
The Glock 17 may be equipped with an optional set of maritime spring cups for use in water environments. Maritime spring cups are not intended for submerged firing, but for surface use by special ops teams who operate in and around water. The maritime spring cups are two small parts within the firing pin assembly and are not included on any Model 17 sold by Glock (civilians can only get them through 3rd parties). They insure that water can pass by the firing pin within the firing pin channel, thus preventing the creation of hydraulic force within the firing pin channel -- which would slow the firing pin down, causing light primer strikes. With the special cups, the action will cycle reliably while submersed, if a little bit slower. NATO specification ammunition (such as Winchester's Ranger RA9124N) with waterproof sealed primers and case mouths is recommended.
Although you may install the maritime spring cups on any Glock model, *only* the Glock 17 was designed and intended to use the modified spring cups for aquatic firing -- and only then using 9mm ball ammunition to remain within acceptable pressure limits. The foolhardy who insist on living dangerously must keep several things in mind: The Glock 17 must be fully submersed underwater. There must not be any air left within the pistol as the muzzle is pointed towards the surface of the water after submersion to allow the air in the barrel to escape. Use only full metal jacket, ball-type ammunition because the water within the barrel can spread a hollow point out within the barrel upon firing. This increases the bearing surface of the bullet to the barrel and could catastrophically increase pressures. Even if the barrel doesn't burst, the expanded bullet would get even bigger upon exiting into the water and would slow down very quickly while tumbling. Accuracy would be terrible.
The marinized Glock 17 is primarily for use by various Special Warfare units operating in aquatic environments. At least one specialized Scuba diving group regularly uses G17's to dispatch sharks where they dive. The Glock 17 using NATO specification ball ammunition will completely penetrate a minimum of one 1/2" pine board at a distance of ten feet from the muzzle when fired underwater.
Trained personnel who use Glocks underwater know they must obey several rules:
1) use only a Glock Model 17 with amphibious spring cups (reliability issue);
2) use only 9mm FMJ subsonic, sealed primer ammo;
3) completely immerse the pistol and get *all* the air out of the barrel;
4) wear protective ear plugs, gloves, wet suit, face mask, etc.;
5) do not fire near solid objects or in enclosed spaces to prevent return
concussion.
However, any Glock -- even those not equipped with maritime spring cups -- will normally fire while submersed underwater. But doing so may generate excessive internal pressure and may cause the pistol to literally blow up. This is especially true with the use of high-pressure rounds (such as the .40 S&W/357 SIG) or hollow-point bullets.
I recall a reported incident where a Glockster on a boating holiday decided to show some friends how his Glock would fire underwater (because Tommy Lee Jones said so in the movies). He stuck his hand overboard, pulled the trigger and came back with a bunch of shredded plastic and a badly injured hand.
Another reported case was the Glockster who decided to try out his Glock 23 .40 S&W in the swimming pool after seeing pictures of Glocks being fired underwater on the web. He was totally submerged, with the gun, as he fired at a piece of wood on the bottom of his pool. The Glock did fire, the .40 S&W FMJ round left the barrel and went into the wood. The chamber also exploded and implanted shrapnel into his leg. Thinking that the water would muffle the blast, he did not wear hearing protection (the blast is actually about 4 times louder underwater). He is now mostly deaf in one ear and hears high-pitched tones most of his waking life.
As you can see, firing a pistol underwater is a *very* dangerous endeavor.
Several things could happen:
1) the firing pin may be slowed enough to not detonate the primer
(without the maritime spring cups)
2) the pistol could blow up in your hand;
3) the concussion could damage ears, eyes or internal organs;
4) the bullet may not go where you intend it to.
Even if you have the right equipment, know what you're doing and follow the rules -- the risks for underwater firing are minimized -- but not eliminated. Your pistol's barrel could be affected by water obstruction and your body by damaging concussion. By using hollow point bullets (water may cause the bullet to expand in the barrel), high pressure ammo, etc. -- you're asking for an underwater kaBoom! It you fire near solid or hard objects, the bouncing concussion can cause extensive, perhaps even fatal external/internal tissue injury. Why risk it? [JT]0 -
Great idea for Aggies who want to hunt ducks from a submarine. 0
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