Home Defense: .38 Spl 148 Grain Wadcutter
Is the .38 Spl. 148 Grain Wadcutter from a 2" S&W Model 60 adequate for home defense? I know there are more powerful loads, but I'm looking something for my wife when I'm away.
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It will be fine for home defense. Why? Because it will kill a bad guy graveyard dead.
If a bad event happened, the mere fact that your wife had a gun and pulled the trigger one time will solve the problem 9 out of ten times even if she misses. Because if the bad guy knew she was armed and willing to shoot he wouldn't come into the house in the first place, he would go look for an easier target.
If she shot once and missed, the bad guy would probably set the new worlds record in the 220 high hurdles, over the sofa, out the door, across the lawn and over the picket fence.
For that matter, let us say that a bad guy has broken in to your house and is standing in the living room downstairs. He shines his light on the stairs, and is about to go upstairs and commit some real felonies. Let's say, just for the sake of argument, your wife lights a little Black Cat firecracker and throws it on the floor.
The bad guy hears the explosion coming from upstairs. He will:
1- Using his keen powers of analysis and his giant intellect, realize that it is a firecracker and proceed upstairs
2- Say, "S***, she is shooting at me!!" and he will run out the door.0 -
Coltsr - I used to load hollow base .38 wadcutters upside down. Makes for an excellent attention getter and isn't too likely to get any of the neighbors by accident.[xx(]
Don
When they pry it from my cold dead fingers.0 -
The first 2 rounds in my H-D 38 Spl are Snake shot.
No danger of a round going where you don't want it. (Like the Neighbors house.)
The rest a 148 gr. WC
You can lead a horse to water but....you can't make him a duck0 -
This has been a topic of discussion for years, on and off the Forum, and at almost every pistol match I ever went to! Yet, I have no personal experience at shooting someone with this load, nor have I ever met anyone that did. Nevertheless, everyone always loudly proclaims what a really good defense load this would be.
Well, it just might be--when defending yourself in your home over-penetration of a higher velocity load might be a consideration. It is certainly true that a 148 gr. hollow base wadcutter loaded upsidedown might offer rapid expansion and not exit the other side of the intruder. It is also true that a higher velocity round fails to continue imparting shock and damage to the target once it exits the other side. If being used by someone who does not practice with any frequency a low level of recoil might be advantageous.
But then again, is there any satisfactory substitute for competence and practice? And is the difference in recoil really so much less than, say, a .380 JHP or 9mm JHP? Just some thoughts to kick around--everyone's home and circumstances are different. My Lady has a Taurus M-85 loaded with .38 Sp. 125 gr.JHPs and an M1 Carbine with a 15 rd. mag. I insist that she shoot them every now and then.[:)]0 -
A friend and i tried the hollow base wadcutter on some balistic gell just to see if the claims are true.A light target load was impressive, a +p load would be a one shot stopper. My home defense load in my snubbie is snake shot with wax poured into the shot cup.It will go through a wall without much damage on the other side. 0 -
Well, I take a completely different approach, as I live in an urban area: I keep all my firearms in my safe, & depend upon a perimeter security system (with a dog backup) to keep myself & my family safe. What fool is going to keep trying to get in, with that siren blasting & the knowledge that the police will be there in < 3 minutes?
Anyway, there are far more people assaulted OUTSIDE the home, than INSIDE. If your wife doesn't carry a gun when she goes out, especially at night, maybe you are leaving her most vulnerable times unguarded.
Neal0 -
wads work. ask any idiot who AD'ed on a target range and shot himself. they hurt.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
I would agree with Der.. load your gun up with some 125 JHP in the +P .38 They will get the intruders attention quick. You could also consider finding a 20 gauge shotgun. My wife is small and has no trouble shooting a 12 gauge Winchester defender with LIGHT LOADS. 0 -
I am a proponent of using effective deterants to prevent an intrusion if it is possible. I tend to be more preoccupied with this than what to shoot them with. Deadbolts, locked windows, neighborhood watch programs, security systems, dogs, etc. are good deterants...although not infallible.
Regardless of some of the speil that prevails, it is my opinion that aside from an intruder potentially harming you or your family; your next most likely trauma may result from your potential bad judgement to use deadly force...and how it was used. An investigation, potential indictment, incarceration, civil suits from the victim/victims family against your estate, etc., or all of the aforementioned could be devastating.
So, I am not a follower of the mantra; "I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six." I don't find it that simple or comforting. It doesn't provide me with much peace of mind in the politically correct and litigious society we live in today. Don't get me wrong, I will do what I have to do; but luckily I don't see it as an imminently threatening issue where I live.
Just to put things in perspective; you are much more likely to die in a traffic accident. That goes the same for any family. Safe/defensive driving habits will help there. Good life style choices should be a priority also; good diet and excercise. Insidious events are evolving otherwise to cut the lives of you and your loved ones short via. coronary artery/vascular disease, diabetes, etc. These are both very real everyday events that you have some control over.
Unfortunately, home intrusion is a reality and concern for some folks; especially when living in a high-risk area, and without the convienience or means for viable deterants. In this case it is a difficult position to be put in.
As was mentioned in your previous posting regarding home defense (revolver vs. automatic); I believe it was member "sck" that mentioned that it would not be viewed very well by authorities if you used unconventional loads for your firearm. This may provide suspicion regarding your obsession with preparing and planning for this unlikely event. It could be viewed as waiting for an opportunity to happen, or being "blood-thirsty" as I think it was referred to.
An effective off-the-shelf cartridge obtained convieniently would likely reflect a healthy concern w/o an indication that you were planning on it, and taking extraordinary measures to insure maximum lethality. Mortality is likely anyway if you do the job right. Enroll in some training if this is a concern for you and it is available. I don't think that would be viewed negatively. It would support you're being a responsible individual and may help your decision making progress regarding what is appropriate and legal when and if you are ever in that position.
I think this is all very interesting discussion. I have pondered these scenerios/effects/results myself. I have since resolved some of this and determined how I view it as a real threat, and my risk tolerance regarding any actions I may employ.
I'll get off my soapbox now. I don't mean to appear to have all the answers, or intend to side-rail your thread. I think there is some relevance here though, and another perspective can be enlightening occasionally. I think "sck" provided some of that for me with his posting in your last thread.
Best Regards0 -
to shed more light on the last post, this is why its very important when you register your home gun that you check the 'target use' block on the application. once its on record that you are a target shooter, finding the wadcutter bullet in the perps torso will become justified. afterall, it wasnt your intention to 'protect' with the wad gun, its primary purpose was to shoot 'targets.' follow me?
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
Dog, lights, fence, locks, alarms. I have a 110 pound Doberman, lights I can turn on all sides, six foot chain link, various locks and IR detectors - all that is in the 'ounce of prevention' dept - or maybe more than an ounce. If necessary, the next line of resistance is my Charter .44 Bulldog. In another time and place I faced an intruder in my kitchen with my .44. His good judgment had him jump out a window rather than approach, thus saving him pain and me tons of inconvenience. At the time I recall it seemed everything went into slow motion and my every move was planned and calculated. I could have shot him with impunity but I congratulate myself for not doing so, every time I think of it. 0 -
I agree with RHMC24 about the "slow motion" camera running in your head; working in a gun shop 25+ yrs ago , i caught a "grab and go" sneak thief in the money safe, and after a grab or two, he books it.
I chased him through the store screaming for the other guys to stop him , which we did at the front door.During the 3 second run, I pulled a 2" .38 with 125 JHP's and did the "Shoot; Don't Shoot" process a dozen times ,it seemed. The rather urban PD at the time said I should have shot him, but he did not attack me, did not appear to have a weapon, was fleeing, not attacking, ALL of which went through my mind. Also : had FACTORY ammo, as the thinking has been presented that if factory ammo was not "good enough" for your shooting, you have to reload some other deadly combination to inflict ever MORE damage to the poor social outcast who decided he deserved your stuff more than you do.
I also went to a Colt series 70 Govt model with a short trigger and Pachmyer grips , no other mods, with W/W 185 gr. Silvertips and shot regularly. I have been an active bullseye competitor , indoor and outdoor since the '70's and feel very comfortable with the .45. This is now my "house gun" , along with a pre-disconnector Ithaca 37 DSPS 8-shot Parkerized rifle sight ; loaded with hammer down on an empty chamber, mag filled alternately w/ OO buck and slugs. This way the first sound will be the enchantingly attention-grabbing one of racking a 12 gauge pump!!!0 -
Well, fellas, just a couple of generalized comments here. Bob, I'll bet that it hurts to get shot with anything! A situation I've always tried hard to avoid! [:0] But I'll bet that a 125 gr. JHP hurts more! Darn shame that some of you guys have to live in forts, it's not that way here. Not that there aren't any bad guys, but they know that they have a good chance of dying, uninvited in someone else's house. And the bad guy incidents are still infrequent enough to make the newspaper. Register your gun, ammo, and reason for owning? Not here! Walk in the dealer's door, fill out the Federal yellow form (4473), get your thumbprints taken, pass the instant check (usually 3 minute phone call), pony up your money, and walk out the door with the purchase. I'd say 10 minutes total on a good day--but that would exclude time for coffee and conversation. I know that one can't always chose where they live, and often circumstances (job, family, etc.) dictate where you hang your hat, but you folks that are living under those conditions need to think about changing them. If you can't, then come on out here. Lots of room. [:D] Liberals need not apply. [}:)] Well, we do have a place for them--it's called Portland. 0
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