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Selling & Shipping Antique Guns

A-37
I'm sure this subject has been covered a thousand times but I've never had occasion to pay attention. So here goes:

I plan to sell a S&W revolver manufactured in 1894......

Is a C&R from the buyer sufficient for transfer?

Can I Priority Mail the gun? (I don't hold a C&R nor an FFL)

Is it true that any gun over 50 years old is a C&R?

Thanks in advance.
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Comments

8 comments

Date Votes
  • EOD Guy
    The revolver is classified as an antique and there are no Federal restrictions on the transfer. State laws may have some restrictions.

    A C&R should be enough identification if you ship to the premisis address although the C&R is not required.

    As far a postal regulations and Federal law is concerned, you can send the revolver via Priority mail.

    Yes, any firearm made more than fifty years ago and not classified as an antique is automatically a C&R. Military firearms must be in original configuration. (You may get some arguments on the original configuration part.)
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  • l-girl
    EOD Guy,

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a weapon have to be specifically listed on the Treasury's website in order to be classified as a Curio? I think someone opens themselves up to some serious legal issues if they assume that just because a gun was made pre-1953 that it qualifies automatically.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/intro.htm

    Best regards,
    Rich


    Best regards,Rich
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  • nmyers
    EOD Guy & I have discussed this topic before, & we still do not agree. While I respect his opinion, as he is one of the few people who takes the time to read the law before passing along firearms-related legal opinions, I think that he is not completely correct on this subject.

    USPS Pub 52 contains the USPS interpretation of firearms regulations in a format intended for the public. According to Pub 52, a nonlicensee cannot mail an antique handgun if it is chambered for a modern cartridge. EOD Guy believes that this is superceded by the Code of Federal Regulations. I, for one, do not plan to argue the law with the fellows with the bulges in the cheap suits; if I am going to err, it will be on the side that keeps me out of jail. I suggest that you read Pub 52 & decide for yourself. Do not bother asking USPS; they have said (in writing) that they will not give firearms-related legal interpretations.

    I-girl, any firearm manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date is considered to be a C&R; see Firearms Curios or Relics List (ATF P5300.11) page 2. It does not need to be specifically listed on the C&R List. And, as EOD pointed out, military guns must be in original military configuration.

    Neal
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by l-girl
    EOD Guy,

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a weapon have to be specifically listed on the Treasury's website in order to be classified as a Curio? I think someone opens themselves up to some serious legal issues if they assume that just because a gun was made pre-1953 that it qualifies automatically.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/intro.htm

    Best regards,
    Rich


    Best regards,<P>Rich


    Hello Rich...

    nmyers gave you the correct answer to your question, but to expound upon it a little, read the following information copied directly from the BATFE... please note the section in red

    WHAT ARE CURIOS OR RELICS?
    As set out in the regulations (27 CFR 178.11), curios or relics include firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

    1.) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
    2.) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
    3.) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

    The firearms listed in Sections II, III, IIIA & IV are listed because they at one point had special NFA or GCA restrictions on them, or are not necessarily 50 years old yet. You can petition to have any firearm placed on the C&R list regardless of its age, and that is how some of them get on those lists.





    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • ed_spr
    It absolutely has to be on the treasuries list first of all. And the POST OFFICE will NOT ship ANY firearm unless you have completed their form #6 I beleive it is. No matter because the form is for FFL holders ONLY! They will NOT knowingly ship any firearm to or from a private individual!
    Then you have to worry about state laws! Keep in mind whats legal for the ATF doesn't always apply to State Law. And not all state laws are the same.
    Hate to say this,....BUT just go to a dealer and have him transfer it to a dealer of the buyers request.
    That way you are sure no laws are broken, and you don't and won't have any later issues because some state or the ATF has again changed the laws or regulations that contray to popular belief are all not all grand fathered. Matter of fact! MOST are not on the state level!
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by ed_spr
    It absolutely has to be on the treasuries list first of all. And the POST OFFICE will NOT ship ANY firearm unless you have completed their form #6 I beleive it is. No matter because the form is for FFL holders ONLY! They will NOT knowingly ship any firearm to or from a private individual!
    Then you have to worry about state laws! Keep in mind whats legal for the ATF doesn't always apply to State Law. And not all state laws are the same.
    Hate to say this,....BUT just go to a dealer and have him transfer it to a dealer of the buyers request.
    That way you are sure no laws are broken, and you don't and won't have any later issues because some state or the ATF has again changed the laws or regulations that contray to popular belief are all not all grand fathered. Matter of fact! MOST are not on the state level!



    Ed... you are wrong! It absolutely does NOT have to be on the BATFE's Section II, III, IIIA, or IV list. I have been a C&R License holder for several years now, and I am quite familar with the Federal (and my home State's) laws concerning what is and is not a C&R firearm, and how to ship them. I urge you to go to the BATFE web site and read it completely.

    Bert H.

    Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!
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  • cbxjeff
    I can not give legal advice. I can relate my experience with purchasing pre-1899 pistols. I took an interest in these about 1 1/2 years ago and have purchased about 18 of them - all but a few from GB. I believe every one has been shipped USPS. A couple of sellers say in their ad a FFL transfer is required. When questioned about the antique status after I won the auction, they send to my house. Perhaps it is because by then they know where I live.

    I have heard the argument about the piece being able to fire currently available cartridges. Some of mine are 22 rim-fire & 32 centerfire. If this is an issue, there are a whole lot of illegal shipments out there.

    I don't pretend to be an expert dispite of this foreum's name. I do have an interest in this topic and hope it will continue for a while longer.

    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • A-37
    Well, folks, thanks for all the info. Looks like I can't go afoul of the law if I request a C&R from the buyer and have my FFL take care of the shipping. Dang! It's complicated!!
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