Bolt action extractors.
If you can consolidate posts, I'll get more answers before Cap'tn "locks". Thanks. JS
http://www.remington.com/support/rifles/boltaction.htm
On this link you will see a bolt action Remington extractor.
It appears to me a small piece of metal.
I'm just starting with rifles, so this seems basic to a lot of you.
A Ruger bolt I saw had an extractor "claw" running up the entire length of the bolt, and seemed a sturdier design. This is a Mauser action?
Any/all comments welcome..
I.Shute said ...
Check on my response on the post by UPINARMS on 11/30 at 11:22 PM about extractors. http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=83458
WHAT I KNOW ABOUT RIFLES WOULD FIT IN A THIMBLE!
Here are two rifles. My goal is to group nicely w/ open sites @ 100 yds. w/ a .243
Savage 111G .243 Under $400
Remington 700 BDL .243 About $550
Similar both, with factory metal sites. There are so many Remington 700 models...I will not be hunting with this, just target shooting. I was crusing the Ruger sites, but kept seeing models fit for rings (free w/ all rifles)
quote:Originally posted by JustC
The custom actions are all push feed. So a Remington actions are custom actions? What's custom about them??
http://www.remington.com/support/rifles/boltaction.htm
On this link you will see a bolt action Remington extractor.
It appears to me a small piece of metal.
I'm just starting with rifles, so this seems basic to a lot of you.
A Ruger bolt I saw had an extractor "claw" running up the entire length of the bolt, and seemed a sturdier design. This is a Mauser action?
Any/all comments welcome..
I.Shute said ...
Check on my response on the post by UPINARMS on 11/30 at 11:22 PM about extractors. http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=83458
WHAT I KNOW ABOUT RIFLES WOULD FIT IN A THIMBLE!
Here are two rifles. My goal is to group nicely w/ open sites @ 100 yds. w/ a .243
Savage 111G .243 Under $400
Remington 700 BDL .243 About $550
Similar both, with factory metal sites. There are so many Remington 700 models...I will not be hunting with this, just target shooting. I was crusing the Ruger sites, but kept seeing models fit for rings (free w/ all rifles)
quote:Originally posted by JustC
The custom actions are all push feed. So a Remington actions are custom actions? What's custom about them??
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It's (the Ruger) simply been made with a Mauser style extractor (there's a lot more to a Mauser action than just the extractor). The Remington bolt can be modified to a Sako style extractor.
There are 2 basic styles of bolt actions, Push feed (PF) and Controled Round Feed (CRF). The Rem your looking at is a typical PF, while a Mauser is a true CRF (If you "short stroke a PF it will try to chamber 2 rounds at once, with a CRF the extra round will be laying on the ground) . If you look at a pre-64 Winchester model 70 you will see a modified (for easier production) Mauser.
Feeding, intrigal recoil lugs, flat bedding surfaces, blade ejectors, positive extraction, ruptured case gas handling, shooter shielding from those gasses, positive ignition, strength, are all hallmarks of a Mauser action.
Edit: More informaation, more comments
For custum work the Rem action is easier to "true up" (blueprint) as the entire operation can be done in a lathe. Flat bottom actions require milling machines, custom fixtures and lathe work.
For target work the Rem (unless you move up to a BAT, Nosika etc action) action is the way to go. If you trash the extractor than have a Sako extractor installed. The Rem ejector may also hang up, but again on a target gun this dosn't matter as you will want to pick them out instead of ejecting them on the ground. Since your talking about iron sights, I'm assuming your going to be doing more fun (plinking) target than formal (compatition) target, so the pros and cons of the different actions realy dosn't come into play, pick the one you like the feel of best. The action style probably has the least effect on overall accuracy (unless you get a real lemon), sights, stocks, barrels and chambering (actual chamber, not the cartridge used) having the greatest effect in a rifle.
The other posters have also given you good advise.
Just C, Only in Americia is the Mauser unable to close on a round in the chamber (this started when a "gun rag" writer back in the 30's? couldn't figgure it out), the rest of the world knows how to work the extractor inorder to pop it over a chambered round (squeeze it and it opens). There is also a $12 insert for the mag that allows you to just drop the cartridge in and close the bolt (thats what I use for load workups).
My back ground is mid range (under 500yd) hunting not compatitation target, although I do keep my hunting Mauser shooting under 3/4 MOA (when it open up to 1MOA it's time for another new Shilen)
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0 -
Check on my response on the post by UPINARMS on 11/30 at 11:22 PM about extractors.
Tailgunner's description of the differences could be considered as complete.0 -
Considering everything that's been said above, what kind of extractor does the old Ruger M77 have? 0 -
I've been a die-hard remington fan for most of my life, however, over the past 5-10 years I've started liking them less and less. That said, I've NEVER had a single problem with the extractors on a Remington and the only case I've seen of it was a buddy of mine used to go through them like crazy, but he hotloaded every shot for every rifle and his failed with alarming regularity, but he also had pressure signs on the cases too. He often offered his guns for sale to me and there's no way in heck I'd want one of his after seeing what he put 'em through.
Tailgunner has a great description...0 -
remington extractors fail when the owner hotloads the rounds consistently. Other than that,..they may look inferior,..but of all the 700 rems produced,...how many times have you seen an article on their deficiency?
I installed a sako extractor in my 1000yd light gun (700 action) just because I am shooting heavy 200-240gr pills out of a 300RUM which tends to build some high pressures. But have never had one in ANY of my other 700's fail. The claw extractor design in a nice feature,...but not one noted for accuracy. The rounds can't be single fed by hand,..therefore,..it is a hunting or military design only. The custom actions are all push feed.
Buy the 700 rem and don't look back. All things considered,..it is still one of the best out of the box rifles ever made,..hands down.
addendum:
As usual[:D] Tailgunner has corrected me by expanding on the elements I left out in my haste to make my point. The CRF or "claw" extractor type action will "snap" the claw over the rim of the case and allow it to be single fed. This I have discovered does also "introduce" or increase runout of the neck or bullet. The gunsmith and I deduced that when the amount of pressure necessary to snap the claw over the bolt face is applied, it pushes the case to the opposing side of the chamber. Now,..following that logic,..one can see what will happen at the other end of the axis,..the case mouth/bullet end,. is that that forces the bullet against the claw side of the chamber/throat,..and can actually bend the case neck by putting pressure on the full caliber section of the ogive of the bullet. This runout will now increase the size of the group as the bullet will be destablized as it enters the bore at an angle rather than straight on. However, if no handloads with the bullet seated out to touch the rifling are used,..the short seating of factory rounds will more than likely not allow this situation to occur, and my explanation is for nought. My pursuit of tiny groups has almost nothing to do with hunting and field situations. I would whole heartedly trust either of the rifles you have selected.
That was my reasoning behind the single feed comment I made. It has nothing to do with the use of any CRF action for hunting purposes where the increase in group size by 1/4" is of no consequence. For hunting uses,..the CRF is a great action design,..I have a MK II M77 that I have been working with and having great results. I feed the handloads from the magazine,..and from a box stock 30-06 rifle with 125gr nosler BT's I have gotten repeatable groups in the .3's and .4's.
As far as the "custom" statement,..I was referring to the totaly custom actions as tailgunner mentioned ( BAT, Nesika, Stolle, Viper, Shilen, Geske, etc)
Sorry for any confusion,..I get ahead of myself sometimes[B)]
I.Shute,..I don't suppose any of those dead remingtons with no extractors are for sale???[:D][:D]
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?0 -
JustC-
You pretty much summed it up: Everyone doesn't buy a rifle for the same purpose. The push feed for a target rifle is just fine.
If you're going to take the rifle on a hunt, drag it through the dirt, brush, rain, snow,- want to make sure you don't short-stroke it in the excitement of getting a second or third shot at a mad bear that might eat you up or if you don't want to lose that nice elk you just spent $2500 on, many gunners choose the controlled round feed.
When Remington made the enclosed bolt head on the 721 it was supposed to handle very high pressures and heavy loads and prevent blown case heads. I wonder why they put this flimsy extractor inside that may fail when this same heavy load is fired.
You were wise to go with the Sako extractor,- why weren't they as wise?
I, too don't see articles on these failures, but I see many people looking for extractors, rivets, gunsmiths to fix them, etc.
There's lots of dead Remingtons waiting for someone to stock extractors,- no one seems to have them.0 -
in my gunsmithing business i've seen and worked on all the actions listed above (except the bat & nosika). i've had to replace more rem. extractors that all others combined. than said the rem. bolt gun extractors are still very reliable and adequate for almost any use. my 'must work' hunting guns are all m-98 mauser types (win m-70, ruger m77mk11, m-1917 enfield, std. m-98 mauser). 0 -
Mike,
How reliable are Savage 110 extractors? Ever seen any broke or otherwise incapacitated? I just use mine for targets and it is kept clean. I also have a spare and a spring since it is so easy to change.
Thanks
mag0 -
i've only had to change one sav. extractor in the past few years ( shooter was sizing 7.63 nato brass to .243 win and NOT neck reaming!) made for an 'interesting' bolt removal. 0
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