building a race gun
thinking about getting into this game and really dont know alot about.what gun would you start with?what caliber?would you buy a gun ready too go or build 1 too suite you?thanks don
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Don If you are going to shoot unlimited w/ a comp go 9x23 or 38 super. They use 9mm bullets in the 38 super so either way you will have a 9mm. Hope you are ready to spend some money. If you are going to spend the kind of money to get in unless you have a spefic gun in mind have one built to your specs or just build one you self. First figure out what class you will shoot. Then go from there. 0 -
Depends on how much cash you have, what experience you have in reloading and shooting experience in general. If you have absolutely no or minimal reloading experience, you might not want to shoot an open class gun. Why? Because to be competitive in open class, you'd probably want to go with .38 super or similar ultra-high pressure cartridge which leaves very little margin for error in reloading. If you screw up, things can go boom instead of bang. If you do decide to go into Open class, I'd recommend .38 supercomp, because it's a rimless straight wall case; this means it stacks easily in a magazine and has no crimp tension problems like I've had on some tapered case calibers.
No matter what class you go, go with a 1911 based design. The reason for this is because there are LOTS of aftermarket goodies that are available (and that you'll NEED) for them. The best ones for Open or Limited class are going to be STI, SVI, or Para-Ordnance. These are all popular double-stack frames with high capacity magazines available. If you go with a Limited class gun (no optics, no compensator), I'd suggest you shoot .40s&w, since it has more capacity than the .45, but if push comes to shove, money becomes a consideration and you find a good deal on a.45 version, the capacity difference isn't going to hurt you as bad in Limited class.
If money was a consideration, I'd buy a used gun ready to go rather than building to suit. Try doing searches here on gunbroker and on ***********.com. Ask your local ipsc shooters if they know of any guns for sale. Join USPSA; they have an online classifieds section, but it's accessable to members only.
Also, for a REALLY great online resource, check out the forums section of www.brianenos.com.0 -
Just a quick response on this one.
1. The pressure are very high on the unlimited Open Guns. However, the pressure limits for cartridges used like .38super were established many decades ago with the technology then available. The use of better metal, better construction, and fully supported barrels (as you discuss later) has dealt with this. In over 10 years of shooting IPSC, I've never seen a cracked slide.
2. This is truly a must if you're shooting a high pressure cartridge like .38 super or the equivalent. Also HIGHLY recommended for .40s&w. Not really needed for .45, but it can't hurt. Actually, Para ordnance also had fully supported barrels stock.
3. The cost issue. It ain't cheap, especially open class, but it ain't that bad. Used open guns go for $1500-2500. Used limited guns go for $700-2000. You can even use your box stock 1911 in Limited 10 class (no more than 10 rounds allowed in the magazine.)
quote:Originally posted by jim_lemay
ddhotbot;
Whatever you do there are two cautions. Don't buy a used race gun.
1. To make them work the loads they are shooting are over pressure on every shot. The slide is subject to cracking and distortion from over pressure.
2. Barrel you use must completely enclose case. Most stock pistols leave a significant portion of the cartridge unsupported. Springfield is the only "mass marketer" which provides proper barrel from factory in new base gun. Colt doesn't have a completely supported cartidge style barrel.
I took a look at cost of competitive pistol at $5,000 and additional reloading hardware and passed on this sport. I'm a little too old for the sport.0 -
There are a couple powder manufacturers which have data for 38 super which will make major and fall withing saami specs. You can buy a decent used para p-16 40 for $500 which will be reasonably competitive in Limited. Mags are going to cost about $75-100 each for any high cap 1911. In open ther are new package guns that can be bought new in the $2000 range. I have seen used witness based 9x21's go for well below $1000 and they are still competitive albeit old technology.
My border collie is smarter than your honor student.0 -
Okay, I'm stupid. What's a "race gun"??? 0 -
Like dustebutt said, first figure out which division you are going to shoot. A lot of people start out in either "production, limited, or limited 10" You can use almost any, out of the box gun, in "production division,"
Take the safety class and try a handgun you already have. Then if you decide you like it, go for a race gun. The reason I say this is because I have seen some people that were not cut out for this style of shooting. They do not like the "hours" of standing around picking up brass, taping targets, setting steel, only to shoot for 10-60 seconds. Since you stated that you don't know a lot about it, I would assume that you really don't want to spend the $2500 to $5000 for a race gun, and then, find out you don't like it.
Another consideration is if you will be shooting major or minor. They are scored differently. 9mm is minor, and therefore is scored harder. While 38 super, 40, and 45 are major. (there are exceptions to this)
One of the stages last weekend had a 22 round count. There was one person with a race gun that shot the whole course "without reloading" I had to put 2 more mags in to finish the course. (I was shooting 10 round mags this time)
If you decide you like it, mpolans and others give good advice. Look at the STI, SVI, or Para guns. (I do not care much for the Para, personal opinion)
If you do go for it....enjoy.
The gene pool needs chlorine.0 -
ok guys looks like i need too start slow on this.think i will go watch a few matches and ask some more questions.thanks for all the advise,probrably saved me alot of money lol.don 0 -
There's another game available for competive shooting that costs a good bit less money. IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Assoc.) only allows carry type weapons, meaning very little modifications are allowed. The divisions are simple: stock carry guns like what the cops carry (stock Glocks, Sigs, Beretta 92s and the like), enhanced service pistol is for mild non-competition enhancements, and custom defensive for 1911 .45s. Of course there are categories for revolvers as well. Since no competition modifications are allowed in any division the cost is much less since you use your existing holsters, or use an inexpensive kydex just for matches. The discipline is relatively similar to IPSC but does more to reinforce defensive use of handguns rather than rambo-style. Typically we'll shoot 5 stages totaling about 110 rounds. IPSC is quite fun and challenging but I thoroughly enjoy shooting IDPA and the side benefit is that I train for defensive use. Train like you fight, fight like you train. Learning to duck for cover, utilizing barriers, and taking out the enemy in tactical order are skills that could keep you and your family alive, which is why I bought my first gun. I did buy a gun just for matches but it is an almost completely stock Kimber basic (polymer framed 1911, double-stack .45) and the only mod done was the addition of an ambi-safety since I shoot lefty. Total cost of my "match" gun is $554 plus an additional 3 mags. I do occasionally carry it since I only have 1911s to simplfy my accessories. Check www.idpa.com for a club in your area.
By the way, world IPSC champ Rob Leatham also shoots IDPA.
God Bless, Shoot Safe.0
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