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  • bobski
    looks right to me. i bought one back in 82 and its serial number was 00061x. i paid 600.00 for it. it had the nigerian stock on it. there were many configurations offered. it is indeed a rare puppy in paratrooper configuration. the short bbl is the give away. i remember paratroopers to have muzzle breaks though. i saw some going for 2,000.00 at shows. the receiver should be RE-marked SPRINGFIELD ARMORY. if its not, they are actual BERETTA guns. all s.a. imports were built form PARTS imported from italy and assembled in the usa to U.S. SPECS. all s.a. guns met s.a. standards. any gun built or imported as a BERETTA were low quality guns and had records of bad malfunctions.

    former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
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  • boeboe
    you should check out the discussion board at machinegunbooks.com, special thread dedicated to BM59's there.

    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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  • bobski
    i spoke with the owner on email and he tells me it is marked 'golden arms' on the receiver. this means its NOT a springfield armory gun. it is a genuine italian import from italy. they are NOT as well built as s.a. guns. they are as is from italy. follow me? the owner gave me the serial number to be in the 2,000,000's, which means they were not built in usa, rather in italy. would the price still be fair? its up to you, but as far as being a dependable gun, (ive shot with the italians) and i dont trust those guns, all they are is a garand in 308 with built in problems associated with garands that were never perfected. afterall, they were built in italy, not a MILSPEC govt contract factory. the italians are dumped them at first chance to comply with NATO 223 requirements.

    former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
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  • boeboe
    Golden State, aka Santa Fe Arms built their rifles in Pasadena, CA on rewelded Garand receivers using modified two groove '03 barrels. Some of them are marked "licensed by Beretta", which means Beretta approved their manufacture, others are not. None of the Golden State or Santa Fe Arms guns were built in Italy, except for some 7.62 NATO 8 round Garands.

    I have over 100 pages of articles and advertizments on BM59's dating back to the 1960's. If you have access to a December, 1964 American Rifleman Magazine, you will see an advertisment in there for the "New Santa FE M59" offered by Golden State Arms. To quote from the ad:

    "Golden State Arms Corporation, in the first such arrangement ever made, has been granted an exclusive license by ARMI BERETTA, Gardone Valtrompi (Brescia), Italy to supply America with one of the most modern and spectacular weapons produced in the world today. The M59 Beretta Semi-Automatic Rifle is now produced in Pasadena, California, with complete cooperation of the world famed Beretta technicians."

    I would think that the above quote from Golden State Arms themselves, as documented in December, 1964 American Rifleman Magazine, should be proof enough that Golden State/Santa Fe Arms DID NOT IMPORT ANY BM59 RIFLES.

    The serial number or some 2,000,000 is a clear signal this was built on a rewelded Military Springfield Armory (NOT Springfiled Armory, INC.) receiver. There were something over 4,000,000 USGI Garands built to supply the whole US military for WWII. Beretta never made 2,000,000 BM59's. There was not that big of a demand for them! Their marketing of the BM59 had to compete against the FAL and G-3, which were produced in far greater numbers than the BM59. Most of the BM59's Beretta did make were made on reworked USGI receivers and were select fire.

    The only BM59 style rifles imported were imported by Berben and Benet. The truly imported and those made by Springfiled Armory, Inc. on genuine Beretta parts can be distinguished from those built on rewelded receivers using parts sets by the offset of the gas tube. They look like this, with a noticable gap between the barrel and gas tube.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=14117601

    Those built on rewelded Garand receivers by Golden State have gas tubes that have been bent up, and run closer to the barrel, as on the rifle in question.

    Still another indication this is not a true Beretta paratrooper is the fact that it has an aftermarket stock on it. Real Beretta BM59 folding stocks have two tubes, not a single tube, and a plastic pistol grip, not a wood one. They look like this:

    http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=14271552

    The stock on the rifle in question is an aftermarket stock currently sold by Reesesuprlus.com. They are still selling the Springfield Armory, Inc. Beretta stamped receiver versions. You may know Bill Reese was one of the original owners of Springfield Armory, Inc. Their web site, where these stock can be ordered, is:

    http://reesesurplus.com/

    There is also an excellent history of the BM59 available on the Reese Surplus web site.

    Further, those that were imported by Berben and Benet were amoung the best. Golden State took several shortcuts in their rifles, as I said, they use of the two grove '03 barrel was one shortcut. They also modified the forward magazine catch to facilitate production. And every one I have seen was built on a rewelded Garand receiver.

    Springfield Armory, Inc. (Not the National Springfield Armory) never built any mil-spec .308 rifles.


    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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  • mag
    My BM62 has the tricompensator and it really tames the recoil. Very pleasant to shoot.

    mag
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  • bobski
    so what were you asking us? why were you asking us something you appeared to already know? was it the part about being correctly assembled, rare, or was it a fair price? i was lead to believe you wanted to know if the beretta or springfield armory bm59 was rare. in which case i'd say the s.a. series was rarer. mine was NOT a reweld. and it was numbered in the usa. personally, i got rid of my bm59s. they were crap in comparison to a real milspec built m-1a to begin with. im glad i unloaded it. i used the money to build my m-1a. the one pictured was nothing more than a tanker garand modified with a paratrooper stock. big deal. follow me?

    former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
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  • boeboe
    bobski, please don't take offense, I was hoping someone would answer that would serve to alert potential buyers that this is not an import, but a USA manufactured rifle on a rewelded receiver. Hopefully, someone will do some research on this prior to bidding, I was wanting someone, such as Dances With Sheep or Mark Christian, to come on and point out the errors in this listing, in an effort to save some potential bidder from buying a product that is not as advertised. By the way, there has never been a Springfield Armory, Inc M1A built that was mil-spec. S. A, Inc. is not the S.A that is now a National Monument in Springfield, MA. The metallurgy was never mil-spec. They were all built on cast receivers, and have added more and more cast parts over the years. To be mil-spec one would have to be built on a forged receiver, with forged parts, using correct metallurgy. Springfield Armory BM59s have forged receivers and forged parts, as opposed to the non-mil-spec castings found on M1A's. That is, perhaps, one reason Springfield Armory, Inc. sold them for more money than the M1A, and why they still command a premium.

    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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  • bobski
    ok, now i understand. i believe the wording he used for it to be 'rare and in the 100's' was the misleading point. the only ones i knew to be only in the 100's were the actual s.a. marked receivers sold as s.a. guns. i remember the advertisments hitting the streets back in 82 and i hopped on it. i also remember the write ups in the first 'SPECIAL WEAPONS AND TACTICS MAGAZINE' ever issued, vol 1 - #1. all the others in my opinion were an attempt from s.a. to make some bucks by assembling and selling a scraped gun back in usa. follow me? im sure some swear by them, but im not one of them. the more i looked at them, i saw areas prone to problems, like the op rod, gas assy, and chincy b-pod. even though mine 'looked' good,' it only had minimal accuarcy and field grade sights. and those dang mags were not encouraging to find! so again, i apologize for involving my opinion in a discussion that im way out of line on other than first hand field experience. you and others our entitled to be lured by them. enjoy.

    former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
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