Smith Enterprise M14 (or M1A) National Match
Looked at a Smith Enterprise National Match "M14" today at the local show, it was walking down the isle, not at a table. The guy was asking $1400 for it, had no buyers before he left, I took his name and number and told him I might be able to do something with him in a couple of weeks. This was a "preban" match rifle in excellent condition, I did some gunbroker searches in past auctions trying to locate how much it might be worth. I have heard these were built on forged (or billet) receivers and are generally considered better than the Springfield Armory versions. I found a 1991 American Rifleman review on them, but generally can't find a lot of info. If any of you have info on these rifles and their relative values, please let me know.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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Smith Enterprises makes a good product. However, like all M14-clones, it is not made to milspec & the armorer who assembled the rifle is of greatest importance. A complete rifle assembled by Smith Ent will be top notch, but a Smith Ent receiver assembled with a parts kit by someone else is only as good as "someone else".
"Pre-ban" shouldn't mean that you need to pay extra money for any M14-clone match rifle, especially one that is not NIB.
The asking price may not be out of line if it was done by Smith Ent, depending upon the parts used. However, many high power shooters have switched to AR-clones, so there are a bunch of M14-clones on the market. This means that this is a buyers market, & you should be able to find lots of bargains out there; this may not be a bargain.
Neal0 -
Thanks Neal, out of curiosity I called a friend, actually the FFL dealer who was set-up next to me and looked the gun over before I did. According to my friend, the one we looked at was one of only some 300 made using a forging for the receiver, they made others out of billet, but this was had a forged receiver, and was definately their own National Match model. He indicated it was a rather scarce version, thought I should see if the guy would take $1200 in a couple of weeks, as Christmas obligations draw near. I guess I'll have to see if my own Christmas obligations don't get in the way.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
just make sure the bbl isnt burnt out and make sure the parts used were usgi parts, not chinese crap. if it is a true match gun owned by a diehard shooter, the original owner should have kept a history of every round fired. ask the following...........how worn is the bbl? who made the bbl? whats the twist? check the wear on the locking lugs on the bolt. is the stock bedded? is it floating? is the gas system modified? really? welded or screwed? is the muzzle flash hole enlarged? what size peep is on the nm sights? is the sight base marked NM on the side? what mfg is the op rod and bolt? is the hand guard glued down and been relieved to stay clear of the op rod? have the mags been hand filed to fit? what size front blade is installed? is the gas piston polished? how my doing guys? did i miss anything? just to give you a comparison, my custom match m-1a cost 3,000.00. 1200...? look closely.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
Typical expert opinions here, one guy says it's probably not a deal, the other saying to watch out, sounds like too good of a deal ;-)
I talked to the owner on the phone today, he is a sherriff's officer who lives in a town of about 25,000 out here in Kansas. He didn't buy the gun originally, he bought it about 4 years ago from the original owner, a friend of his, who had Smith build it up to qualify for Master Shooter. I asked to make sure, Smith built up the gun specifically for the original owner's requirements to qualify for Master Shooter. The current owner doesn't know that much about it (isn't really into this type of rifle, prefer's bolt actions himself) for example, wasn't sure who made the barrel, but said he knew it had Kreiger parts in it. All the parts, trigger, flash hider, etc, are National Match. Glass bedding is rock solid. Comes with Springfield 2 knob scope mount (he didn't know if 2nd or 3rd generation) and 1" Weaver rings, if I want them. 4 mags.
He said he's put less than 60 rounds through it since he bought it, the original owner had less than 2,500 rounds through it before he (original owner) decided to get into bolt action rifles.
Serial number is 021X (low 200's).
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
bobski's comment about the barrel is most important. Is it a USGI barrel or a recognized barrel maker's.. ie Obermyer, Douglas, Krieger? If it's one of those then you'll be ok.....of course you may discover it's a TRW NM marked barrel and then you'll be REAL lucky.
Nmyers has it nailed as well!! M1A's are currently in a buyers market the black rifles have nearly replaced them on the firing line and within 10 years they will have gone the way of the M1 on the firing line....to become just a quaint anachronism. With 2500 rounds through it it has gone through half its expected competitive life. Yeah you may get more rounds out of it if it's a GI barrel but don't count on it from a civilian barrel. Beach0 -
Oh, forgot to mention the receiver is double lugged.
I guess one real good question to ask would be, "did your friend qualify to Master"?0 -
well boeboe you have an option to purchase a $2,200-2,600 value rifle. the double lugs mean the best you can get for accuracy, kreiger is most likely the barrel the value of the mags is just under $200. if its a steel scope mount thats over $100. even if it's got 5000 thru it it'll shoot 10,000 more before another barrel. it's worth two new out of the box springfields. If you have a local gunsmith see if he has a throat erosion gauge and that will tell the story on the barrel. my first one still shot under 1/2 moa when I sold it with over 15,000 rds thru it 0 -
This is beginning to sound like something to dress up my safe. Think I better jump on it faster than anticipated. Thanks!
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
I wouldn't hold my breath on 15,000 rounds out of a Krieger barrel. Maybe it did happen but I wouldn't tell my friends. Beach 0 -
In checking things out as much as I could, looked at Fulton Armorys report on the Kreiger barrels, they seemed to say they outlasted other barrels and were more cost effective due to their extended barrel life. Honestly, I really doubt I`d put over another 3000 rounds through it myself. After all, I got a couple of Beretta/Springfield Armory barrelled BM59s to shoot up in addition to this. Using up three .308s may take some time. I think this will do nicely. Will send picks when I can, probably general discussion board. Thanks to all!
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0
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