THE BOSS BY BROWNING
DO THEY HELP IS THEIR ANYTHING ELSE OUT THEIR I WANT TO HAVE MY BROWNING DONE
thomas j. beam
thomas j. beam
0
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Aside from the precevied noise increase they are a great recoil reducer and accuracy improver. I have a clone on my rugger 338 win mag and it tames the big dog with 225 grainers to about a 12 gauge equivilent in recoil. accuracy is incredible from 6" groups at 100 to 2" @ 200 yds. best invention since the auto loader. you might want an aftermarket trigger also. 0 -
they work as advertised. basically they are a slap it on bull bbl. good invention. it gets rid of bbl twang. browning has the pat.. its the only one that i know of. 0 -
As was said; it reduces the vibration and flexing in the barrel prior to the projectile exiting the muzzle.
The mass of the Boss increases the "inertia" of the barrel. Inertia is the phenomenon whereby two things occur 1.) a body a rest will remain at rest until acted upon by an external force 2.) a body in motion will remain in motion until acted upon by an external force. These are just paraphrases of two of Newton's Laws from basic physics.
Anyway, in your case; the BOSS allows the barrel to remain more at rest and less prone to the effects of vibration within the barrel upon the discharge of the cartridge, and until after the projetile has exited the muzzle. Like it was said; it is kind of like a bull barrel in that the barrel with the BOSS resists movement due to its increased mass and consequent inertia.
Actually, it is more stable in theory than a bull barrel since the configuration of a thin bar (standard barrel) with mass at each end resists movement more so than a solid bar (barrel) with the mass equally distributed along it's length. The later puts the center of mass at the center, but in greater concentration at the center. With the BOSS at the end of the barrel, the center of mass is still in the middle of the barrel (almost), but the mass is not as concentrated towards the center, or axis of roatation. This resists rotation more, and any other movement within reason.
I would agree with the importance of a good trigger as a substantial improvement with great returns on your investment.
If you want to go all the way look into getting the rifle glass-bedded also. It will allow the barel to float freely w/o the influence of the stock and the forces of your grip, bench rest, or your sling upon the barrel. Maybe this is already done...not familiar with your rifle. Try this; take a dollar bill and slide it between the barrel and the forestock...see how far it will slide towards the receiver before becoming jambed. If it makes it all the way to the receiver you are golden.0 -
quote:bobski Posted - 11/28/2003 : 16:52:06
browning has the pat.. its the only one that i know of.
The French military experimented with the Ballistic Optimizing System decades ago.
AlleninAlaska
Delta Firearms & Supplies
http://canadianfirearmsexchange.com
aglore@gci.net0 -
I would have to disagree with Ft. Knox's description a bit. It is my understanding that the purpose of the B.O.S.S. system is to allow one to alter the barrel harmonics of his rifle to suit varying loads. As the rifle is fired, the barrel vibrates back and forth. Generally, one would look for a load where the bullet leaves the barrel as the end of the barrel is deviating the least from its at rest position. Thus, in the past, you would tune the load to the specifics of the gun. The BOSS system allows you to alter the harmonics of the barrel. By moving the weight forward or back on the barrel, you can "dial in" the most accurate settings for a particular weight- tune the rifle to the load. The difference in accuracy is owed to the ability to tune the harmonics of the barrel, not to the fact that there is additional weight stuck out on the front. If it was just a matter of having an inertial dampener on the front, dialing it forward or back wouldn't affect performance.
Although I can not argue with your physics lesson, I would submit that your description of the BOSS at work is incorrect. I would agree however with the assessment that the ported units are indeed noisy (thus the reason they came out with a solid one). In case you are wondering, I participated in the program Browning offered with the release of the BOSS system. They had local, regional and a national match with lots of big time prizes and $$ to the ones who could shoot the smallest group with a basically stock BOSS equipped rifle. Our.223 heavy barrel went from lousy 1 1/4" groups down to consistent 5/8" groups with match prepped handloads just by finding that "sweet spot". And no, that was not even close to winning anything above the local level! The ones who ended up in the money could SHOOT! Good luck with your quest. -CRH
There are 179 words in the<BR>10 commandments. There are 26,478<BR>words in our government's regulations<BR>for cabbage. 'nuff said!0 -
most people dont realize that a rifle bbl twangs like a guitar string. the boss is the string tensioner of sorts. picture your gun like a guitar. tighten that string up to a high pitch 'bong....boing ...bing bing bing.' since every bullet makes a different pitch exiting, the boss allows you to adjust your gun to the bullet. smart gun technology for the purest in mind. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by pbgunrunner
I would have to disagree with Ft. Knox's description a bit. It is my understanding that the purpose of the B.O.S.S. system is to allow one to alter the barrel harmonics of his rifle to suit varying loads. As the rifle is fired, the barrel vibrates back and forth. Generally, one would look for a load where the bullet leaves the barrel as the end of the barrel is deviating the least from its at rest position. Thus, in the past, you would tune the load to the specifics of the gun. The BOSS system allows you to alter the harmonics of the barrel. By moving the weight forward or back on the barrel, you can "dial in" the most accurate settings for a particular weight- tune the rifle to the load. The difference in accuracy is owed to the ability to tune the harmonics of the barrel, not to the fact that there is additional weight stuck out on the front. If it was just a matter of having an inertial dampener on the front, dialing it forward or back wouldn't affect performance.
Although I can not argue with your physics lesson, I would submit that your description of the BOSS at work is incorrect. I would agree however with the assessment that the ported units are indeed noisy (thus the reason they came out with a solid one). In case you are wondering, I participated in the program Browning offered with the release of the BOSS system. They had local, regional and a national match with lots of big time prizes and $$ to the ones who could shoot the smallest group with a basically stock BOSS equipped rifle. Our.223 heavy barrel went from lousy 1 1/4" groups down to consistent 5/8" groups with match prepped handloads just by finding that "sweet spot". And no, that was not even close to winning anything above the local level! The ones who ended up in the money could SHOOT! Good luck with your quest. -CRH
There are 179 words in the<BR>10 commandments. There are 26,478<BR>words in our government's regulations<BR>for cabbage. 'nuff said!
I do recall reading the "harmonics" discussion in a brochure once. Apparently I forgot about the feature that allowed it to be tunable (screwed in and out). Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that this was the same thing as an inertial damper. If you have experience such as you say with the program and the product, I would not argue with that. Thanks again.
Edit: I thought about it some more and still think the BOSS is an inertial damper...albeit an adjustable one.
Harmonics is just vibration or wobble...whatever you want to call it. I believe it is the same principle as is employed atop skyscrapers to enable them to resist movement. These help compensate for wind and in some cases seismic activity. These dampers are self-tuned to react with and against the threat of these outside forces.
These outside forces could cause movement to the point of destruction (i.e., total harmonic destruction). The Tacoma, WA bridge disaster is a prime example of total harmonic destruction. It was a bridge, but it is all the same.
A structure has an inherant resonant frequency whereby an adequate force...static or oscillating (i.e., a steady wind or a periodic impulse), can effect it in a way to create movement to the point of failure. The structure reacts to the outside force with each movement (i.e, period) creating an increase in magnitude of movement (i.e., amplitude) that builds on the last. The period, the amplitude, or both components of oscillation (frequency) can be the villain.
So, we are talking about a rifle, but the concept is the same. We are not talking about the destruction of a rifle barrel either...but it is possible, in theory; if the forces causing the harmonics continued with the correct intensity and regularity.
The BOSS is more than just a weight on the end of a barrel to increase its inertia (resistance to movement). It is an adjustable inertial damper. It is adjusted by the rifleman to react with different loads since different loads will produce different harmonics (movements) within the barrel. The BOSS is tuned for a cartridge/load when it has optimally reduced the movement of the end of the barrel to allow the projectile to exit the muzzle at the point of discharge or aim.
This exiting the muzzle at the point of aim or discharge (hopefully they are the same [:D]) is one of three components effecting accuracy called; "Dynamic Stability." The other two components are; "Static Stability" and "Tractability."
Dynamic Stability is the phenomenon whereby the end of the barrel remains stable until after the projectile exits. If it does not remain stable an undesireable component called "yaw" will be transfered to the projectile.
Refer to; http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/stab.htm for more information regarding projectile accuracy.0 -
Well, lets beat this dead horse a bit longer eh?
Again, one can not argue with the physics you have quoted, BUT I do disagree with the premises you propose.
1. Resonate frequency doesn't have much to do with this issue since the stress applied to the barrel by the bullet/combustion process is not a repetitive, resounding force. Instead the barrel is accelerated into a "whipping" motion by the process. Its natural resonance is never triggered for any measurable duration, and thus its natural resonate frequency is not an issue.
2. The barrel itself does not move as a straight lever, rather it deviates back and forth from its resting position in multiple planes and directions at once, i.e.: you get a sign/cosign looking stress pattern much like jiggling a rope tied to a post. ~-~-~-~-~-~-~ if you will.
3. Thus by changing the effective length of the barrel (and thus the oscillating mass) you can dial in the end of the barrel into the part of the wave that is closest to the mean: ~-~-. It is not the reduction of the vibration that causes the gains in accuracy in this case, it is the ability to "tune" the end of the barrel so as the bullet leaves the barrel as it is deviating as little as possible. The accuracy gains are not a function of reducing the vibration, rather they are achieved by controlling it
4. Your theory would hold water assuming the Boss brake itself were applicably heavier that a corresponding chunk of barrel, but it isn't. Although I must say I certainly agree with your eloquent statement" The BOSS is more than just a weight on the end of a barrel to increase its inertia (resistance to movement). It is an adjustable inertial damper. It is adjusted by the rifleman to react with different loads since different loads will produce different harmonics (movements) within the barrel. The BOSS is tuned for a cartridge/load when it has optimally reduced the movement of the end of the barrel to allow the projectile to exit the muzzle at the point of discharge or aim.
I do thank you for your good humor in this debate, a bit of "mental floss" is good for the noggin' every now and then. Peace be with you and yours. -Chad
BTW- Here's Brownings explanation of how it works:
What is the BOSS?
Browning's Ballistic Optimizing Shooting System (BOSS) is a patented breakthrough in rifle accuracy. When any rifle is fired, the barrel goes through a series of vibrations as the bullet leaves the muzzle. The variations of these vibrations greatly affect the accuracy of the rifle. Controlling these vibrations will greatly control the accuracy of the rifle. Browning's BOSS allows you to control the vibrations of your barrel so you can shoot groups you didn't think possible.
How the BOSS works.
The BOSS simply tunes the vibrations of your barrel. This allows the bullet to leave the barrel the split second it is stationary. Your BOSS manual has a list of settings for each caliber and bullet weight. Adjusting your BOSS to these "Sweet Spot" settings allows you to find the instant your barrel is stationary. The result is accuracy never achieved before by an out-of-the-box rifle. This type of accuracy has only been available for benchrest reloaders who spend hours developing loads that leave the barrel between vibrations, or custom gun makers who develop barrels for specific loads
There are 179 words in the<BR>10 commandments. There are 26,478<BR>words in our government's regulations<BR>for cabbage. 'nuff said!0 -
I don't see it as a dead-horse Chad, and I appreciate your good nature also. I wouldn't have it any other way. To react otherwise would not be constructive.
I am not quoting any physics since it is all from memory. I was an engineering student years ago and was once very comfortable with this stuff...so I haven't had to crack a book yet.
I appreciate your experience with the BOSS equipment, and your opinion that the harmonics and the resonant frequency as it applies to this phenomenon has to fit the pattern as you described in your response contained in "2.", but I disagree.
Resonant frequencies are all about oscillatory/vibratory movements just as you descibed...sinusoidal. This is the case whether it is a lever-type movement, irregular oscillatory movement over the length of a structure, or both involving multiple axis of movement.
I gave two examples of this so as not to suggest a straight-lever type movement only (i.e., the building), which is why I also cited an example regarding the Tacoma, WA bridge.
If you have ever watched footage of the Tacoma, WA Bridge collapse, it was obviously an irregular oscillatory event that occured along its entire length...and was multi-axial. The amplification of the sinusoidal movement due to the wind is what eventually destroyed that bridge. There were many winds before that fateful day, but the right conditions eventually occured to exploit its weakness (resonant frequency).
To reach a point of failure exploiting the resonant frequency of the barrel, it would indeed have to be a repetitive force. I am not suggesting failure of the barrel...even though it is possible in theory.
Repetition does not have to occur to evoke a resonant frequency response here since the impulse from the discharge can be long enough in duration to pass through this point and evoke the same response upon the dissipation of it's energy...which is why it will stabilize soon after with or without being dampened...such as a tuning-fork.
The shifting of the BOSS unit in my opinion is seeking the point at which to minimize or cancel the short-lived oscillations and minimize any resonance within the barrel that which will occur with that particular cartridge/load.
The explanation Browning provided is just a laymans description of what I am talking about here. There is not any need or interest for most to have a scientific explanation of this phenomenon provided to them. I have only done so (attempted to anyway) to follow through with what began as a disagreement between us regarding what you said in reference to my initial posting.
I was wrong in forgetting that the BOSS unit is adjustable, and you conscionably pointed that out...as well as disagreeing with my theory regarding the function of the BOSS..."a bit."
I acknowledged the clarification regarding the ability of the BOSS being adjustable/tunable for different loads, and left it at that. It occurred to me later that I was on the right track except for the error in thinking the BOSS unit was in a fixed/non-adjustable position...and that it was just additional mass for increased inertia.
You actually provided the idea for me that it was an inertial damper after I thought about what you said regarding the "harmonics of the barrel."
Harmonics and resonance are inseperable. An oscillating or vibrating object will settle into a natural frequency and movement (resonance) after the impulse that created the movement. This is the case with an impulse. A sustained or periodic force can sustain and aggravate this frequency often leading to its destruction (i.e., harmonic destruction).
The BOSS ideally should prevent the barrel from reaching it's resonant frequency (natural frequency)...or at least minimize its duration there; but it's being out of tune or missing will allow the barrel to briefly resonate.
So, resonance cancellation is not the main objective of the BOSS. Its purpose is to eliminate vibration/oscillation/harmonics before resonance, but changing the position of the BOSS does change the resonant frequency of the barrel. So, it is also a means to that end also; especially considering anything close to rapid fire situation...say a follow-up shot.
So, maybe we are on the same page perhaps except for some prior communication difficulties...hopefully [:D]. Thanks for some insight.
I had a bit of insomnia tonight and looked at a couple of web-sites. If you care to I have noted a couple of links to look at.
A link for resonance; http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/reson.html
A link for Browning Boss; http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/boss/boss.htm
Best Regards0 -
You certainly make some valid points, but I still must stand on my previous statement that the purpose of the BOSS system and those like it is not to reduce vibration (which, as an additional mass it must do to some extent), but again is to control it at the muzzle as the bullet leaves. I agree that it will alter the resonate, cyclical oscillation of the barrel, and it is the adjustability of that mass that allows it to do so. One thing that I can not agree with though (and granted, its a small point- but all of this is rather esoteric anyway)is the barrel achieving its natural "resonate" frequency. As I understand the stresses caused to the barrel by the firing process, I have to assume that the vibrations of any particular point of the barrel change as the bullet moves past it, thus instead of being able to resonate along its length like a tuning fork (and have some duration at its natural frequency)it must have its frequency raised both by the increasing stress caused by the accelerating bullet as well as the fact the bullet moves down the barrel thus decreasing the length of material left to resonate (akin to choking up on a guitar string). I have no doubt however, that the barrel probably spends some time at its natural frequncy, but I think that must occur AFTER the bullet has left
So I leave you with this:
I believe that the BOSS system owes its accuracy gains not to an overal reduction in vibration, but to the ability to limit/tune the vibration/movement of the muzzle itself. Since different loads apply different stresses to the barrel, it must be adjustable to allow you to tune the gun to most loads. I believe both the material published by Browning, and the article done on the product in Popular Mechanics bear this out.
Again, I certainly appreciate your experience and expertise as well as your good nature. I will leave you with the opportunity for last word. Drop me a line sometime if you stumble across another detail we can pound into oblivion! [:D] God be with you and yours- Chad
There are 179 words in the<BR>10 commandments. There are 26,478<BR>words in our government's regulations<BR>for cabbage. 'nuff said!0
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