Remington 700 Accidental Discharge
My buddy was going to go hunting with me this year.
Over the summer, he bought a used Remington Model 700 in .308, out of the "trader" newspaper in Asheville. He paid $325, the rifle looked to be in great shape, had a scope on it.
Lorne was at the range the other day to sight it in. He slipped the safety off and the gun fired. He said, Thank God I had it pointed up. I was watching the news for three days to see if there was a report of the new "South Atlanta Sniper".
Lorne stopped his range session and went home. He called me up to ask if I had any suggestions. I told him, I have heard that this has been a problem with this rifle.
Does Remington have a program where he can get this fixed for free, a recall program?
Over the summer, he bought a used Remington Model 700 in .308, out of the "trader" newspaper in Asheville. He paid $325, the rifle looked to be in great shape, had a scope on it.
Lorne was at the range the other day to sight it in. He slipped the safety off and the gun fired. He said, Thank God I had it pointed up. I was watching the news for three days to see if there was a report of the new "South Atlanta Sniper".
Lorne stopped his range session and went home. He called me up to ask if I had any suggestions. I told him, I have heard that this has been a problem with this rifle.
Does Remington have a program where he can get this fixed for free, a recall program?
0
-
remington probably will fix this free but it also probably just a misadjusted or gummed up trigger assy. a trip to the local gunsmith will save time and shipping costs. 0 -
I recall a news story a number of years ago about a rifle that would AD when taking the safety off. A man shot his son, the bullet went through the house and the son was on the other side of the house and was hit and killed. I don't remember if it was the Remington 700 they were talking about or not. I just remember there was litigation involved trying to get the manufacturer to do a recall. Might take some digging to find it on the web. 0 -
Yea, someone was messing with the trigger. Its adjustable, but if you don't know what your doing, thats what happens. Just take the gun to a gunsmith, he can probably fix it in a few minutes. 0 -
Actually, it was a Lady who shot her son at very close range when she took the Model 700 off safety. She is alledging the "trigger and safety mechanism are faulty" and dangerous. This problem has become fairly well known. The Lady was suing Remington, but I have not heard of any outcome from it. She was also demanding a "recall" on this model rifle but, once again, I don't know whether that occurred or not.
I do know that Remington has been known to "check and repair" as necessary when one of these is sent to them with this problem at "No Charge." If it was my rifle, I would send it to Remington and leave them with the liability of the whole thing. My Reason for this would be that since this has caused death in the past, and they are well aware of the problem, (or its Potential Problem), I wouldn't want to have anyone else be on the hook for this gun.
Then, you must also wonder "where the gun was pointed." Safety Rules MUST NOT be broken! If they hadn't been obviously broken, no one would have been hit by an "Unintentional Discharge" of a gun. Your Friend PROVED That Thankfully!
Life is Fragile! Handle with CARE!0 -
Replace that POS trigger with a Timminy, Basic, or other decent aftermarket trigger. The core problem is internal to the trigger mechanisem itself.
Search for "Remington trigger" on the gunsmithing fourms at www.huntamerica.com and www.accuratereloading.com Jack Belk and several other noted gunsmiths covered the subject completely about 8-12 months ago.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0 -
I have owned at least 20 Rem. 700's over the years.The first thing i do is lighten the trigger to about 3 lbs. pull.I have never had one accidently discharge.If a remington trigger has problems it's because someone improperly adjusted it.They are as safe as any trigger made.I also NEVER trust any safety on any gun.If the barrel is ALWAYS pointed in a safe direction then there is nothing to worry about.If Remingtons triggers are a pos you can't prove it by me. 0 -
BULL READ FOR YOUR SELF
here is the link where I found this stuff
http://www.firearmsid.com/Recalls/FA_Recalls 4.htm#remington82
REMINGTON
MODEL 700,CENTER FIRE RIFLES MFG BEFORE 1982
MODEL 600, 660, 721, 722 40-X RIFLES MFG BEFORE MARCH 1982
MODEL XP-100 TARGET PISTOL MFG BEFORE FEBRUARY 1975
RECALL: Remington Arms Company, Inc. is offering a safety modification program for certain bolt-action centerfire firearms manufactured prior to 1982, including the Model 700, Model 600, 660, 721, 722, 40-X bolt-action rifles (made before March 1982) and Model XP-100 target pistols made before February 1975.
These firearms have a feature known as a bolt-lock that requires the safety to be placed in the "off" position in order to unload the gun. If you participated in this program, your firearm will be modified to eliminate the bolt-lock feature. The operation of your gun will not be otherwise affected.
If you want assistance, call Remington's toll-free consumer hotline at (877) 387-6691. To learn more about the 1979 safety recall, check our website at www.remington.com.
Offer valid through December 31, 2002
Remington
870 Remington Drive
Madison, North Carolina 27025-0700
Source:
North American Hunter, August 2002; page 103
Added 5/25/03
REMINGTON
MODEL 600, 660, MOHAWK 600, RIFLES
RECALL: The Remington Arms Company, Inc. announced today that under certain unusual circumstances on some of its centerfire bolt-action rifles, the safety selector and trigger could be manipulated in such a way that subsequently moving the selector to the fire position could result in accidental discharge. Remington firearms involved are Model 600, 660, and Mohawk 600 rifles manufactured prior to February 1975.
The difficulty can be corrected by installation of a new trigger assembly. In view of the potential safety hazard, the Company is recalling all of these guns produced prior to February 1975 for inspection and modification as required. Efforts are being made to contact owners of these guns. Individuals who have Model 600, 660 and Mohawk 600 rifles involved in the recall should write to:
Remington Arms Company, Inc.
Bridgeport, CT 06602
Or call:
800-241-8444 (all states),
GA residents call 800-282-1333.
Customers should give the operator the model and serial numbers of their gun when calling. Serial numbers involved in the recall are as follows:
Model 600 #0001 to 131,552
Model 660 #0001 to 131,552
Model Mohawk 600 #6,200,000 to 6,899,999
Source:
AFTE Journal, January 1979; Volume 11, Number 1:19
Shooting Times, January 1993; page 9
REMINGTON,
MODEL 700, 17 REMINGTON CALIBER, RIFLE
RECALL: The Remington Arms Company is recalling all Model 700 bolt-action centerfire rifles in .17 Remington caliber. The company is taking this action because some of these .17 caliber barrels could develop cracks and splits. A barrel split could result in serious personal injury.
Shooters who purchased Model 700s after January 1, 1981 are requested by Remington not to use them. They are requested to contact Remington by calling its toll-free numbers in the U.S.: (800) 634-2459 or in Canada: (800) 634-5401. The customer should present the serial number of his rifle to Remington personnel to determine if he owns an affected rifle. All affected rifles returned to Remington under the recall will have barrels replaced at no charge to the owners.
No other Model 700 rifles in other calibers or any other Remington autoloading or pump-action centerfire rifles, rimfire rifles, or shotguns are included in this recall.
Source:
AFTE Journal, April 1990; Volume 22, Number 2:227
Shooting Times, March 1990; page 47
American Firearms Industry, February 1990; page 19
American Rifleman, January 1990; page ?
American Rifleman, February 1990; page 10
California Department of Justice Firearms Safety Note 90-1
REMINGTON
MODEL 700, SEVEN, 40-XB, 40-XC, & SPORTSMAN 78
RECALL: Remington Arms centerfire rifle Models 700, Seven, 40-XB, 40-XC and Sportsman 78 manufactured between July 29 and December 11, 1987, have been withdrawn from sale temporarily for replacement if trigger assembly mechanisms.
This action was taken because a limited number of rifles produced during that period may have an improperly manufactured part in the trigger assembly mechanism. Although it is unlikely, the defective part could break and cause the rifle to fire accidentally.
Remington Arms has launched a program to identify and recover all rifles made and sold during this period, and as a precaution, will replace the trigger assembly on every affected rifle without charge to the owner.
All Remington trade customers and individual rifle owners are being notified, and it is expected that this program will quickly identify owners of the affected rifles.
This notice applies only to those bolt action models listed. No other Remington firearms are involved.
If you have purchased one of these rifles since July 29, 1987, do not load it.
We ask that you call our Trigger Assembly Replacement Program at 1-800-634-2459 with the model and serial number of your rifle. From that number, we can tell you immediately if yours is one of the affected rifles, and if it is, how you can arrange for a free replacement of the trigger assembly.
Source:
Guns & Ammo, June 1988; page 89
Rifle, July-August 1988; Volume 22, Number 4, page ?
California Department of Justice Firearms Safety Note 88-30 -
I have a 722 that discharged when the bolt was closed. The gun has been in my family since new(1962 I think), the trigger worked it's way out of adjustment. I just had to readjust it.
Thanks, Grizztribefans@sssnet.com0 -
OSS and others, here is a little food for thought
From a thread dated 4/2002
The designer of this trigger (Merle H. Walker) admits to the design problem of the trigger by the safety actually becoming a second trigger itself. (Deposition of Merle H. Walker February 2, 1987) Remington even admits that 1% of the pre-1975 Model 700 family of guns out in the field which number about 2,000,000 can be tricked into firing. That means Remington admits that there are 20,000 defective rifles yet when they are confronted with one they say it isn't one of the 20,000. Where are these rifles then?? My FACTS are taken from a product safety subcomittee meeting January 2, 1979. The same trigger used in the pre-1975 rifles is still being placed on M700s today so the number of 20,000 is even higher today. I recently contacted Remington regarding their so-called recall. I spoke to Mr. John Loschin and he told me that my rifle was dangerous and I should have it fixed, but he says it is not defective. HUH??? Even you admit there is a flaw "I'd encourage you all to treat 'Every Firearm' as if it could have an 'Accidental Discharge'. Cause it might just do it."
Same thread,
Why did Merle H. (Mike) Walker urge Remington to make changes to the design with the addition of a *Trigger Block* on 8-16 1948 regarding the M/721 safety and again in 1982 (7 Years after he retired from RAC)
Why "Must the gun be safe when unloaded"?"
Maybe this is something you might understand?
Merle H. (Mike) Walker Memo quoted word for word:
December 3,1946
To: PB Rutherford
From: MH Walker
Subject: Theorereticle *Unsafe* Condition Of M/721 Safety
Straight calculation of the amount the Safety lifts the Sear off the Trigger gives a max. lift of .0147" and a min. lift of minus .0024". However fourteen (14) different dimensions are used in the calculation. The actual amount of lift by statistical analysis would be a max. of .009" and a min. of .0032".
Objections have been raised to the above theoretical *Unsafe* condition. According to L.T.Murphy, the necassary dimension changed on the Sear to eliminate this condition can be made without changes to tooling or gaging. With a minimum lap of .026" between Sear and Firing Pin head the change can be made by changing the depth of grind on the Sear notch.
This change will be incorporated in the drawing as soon as tool procurement is completed.
M.H. Walker
Design Section
Arms Technical Division
And from another thread dated 3/2003
The "Walker System trigger" is an override sear system much like the Sako, Timney, Canjar, Dayton Traister and others.
That means the cocking piece is putting downward pressure on a sear that is pivoted (at the front on a Remington). This sear holds the cocking piece/firing pin to the rear by resting on the upper portion of the trigger.
The trigger is pivoted right in the middle. As the trigger is pulled to the rear the top of it goes forward and slips from beneath the sear which allows the sear to fall and let the cocking piece and firing pin go forward to fire the rifle.
This is a common system and works well ...EXCEPT that Remington added another part. Its called a "Connector". The connector is a small stamped piece of metal that wraps over the top of the trigger. It is this connector INSTEAD of the trigger that holds up the sear.
The safety lever is pivoted to the trigger housing and acts by slightly lifting the sear at the back when engaged. This raises the sear off the connector when its on safe. When the safety is released the sear comes back down to rest on the connector and ready for a pull of the trigger to fire the rifle.
The problem is that the connector is NOT attached to the trigger. It depends on the trigger return spring to push it back into the proper position for each shot. That means if the connector, for any reason, becomes dislodged while the rifle is on safe there is NOTHING to catch the sear when the safety is released. It's called FSR. Fire on Safety Release.
Remember that at EVERY shot the connector is forced forward away from the trigger. That means any amount of debris that gets caught between the connector and the trigger then REDUCES the amount of contact between the connector and the sear. The trigger is enclosed which means it catches all kinds of gunk and the possibility of failure is increased as dirt accumulates.
On rifles made before 1982 the safety also locks the bolt down. That means in order to unload these rifles you FIRST have to take it off safe. IF the connector is not in the right place.and you cant tell if it is or not. Its hidden and out of your control, totally..the rifle fires when you are only trying to unload it. That's happened MANY times.
For those that say, "The rifle should be pointed in a safe direction ALL THE TIME". Where is that direction? Pointed downward had cost several feet and legs and at least one dog hit by a ricochet. Pointed up had killed at least two people...pointed out has killed and injured even more. If you don't know when the rifle *might* fire, there IS NO SAFE direction to point it.
The solution is to replace the Remington trigger with one of the many after market triggers that use a SOLID trigger and NO connector.
The problem was recognized by Remington more than 50 years ago and alternate designs have been made but never used.
Search term used was "Walker trigger"
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0 -
Hard to fathom a company with a following as large as Remington would producing a product that would make people not want to buy their product. Also, the way the industry is changing in todays environment of hefty law suits and liability issues, I find it hard to believe they would jeopardise their position as an industry leader in safety. I also noticed in the article by skyhawk it noted firearms manufactured between July 29 and December 11, 1987 as having issues. No mention as to any others concerning trigger problems. Im a safety nut so I will dive into this and find out if the newer firearms are still succeptable to this problem or if the culprit is bad trigger work after the fact.
"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet."0 -
This impacts sales of these guns, also. Lots of folks just "pass over them" when shopping. Seen it myself at the shop all the time. I myself would not consider a Remington 700 if other comparable guns were available to me in the same caliber as I was wanting.
I can find lots of "trouble" on my own without going looking for it!
Life is Fragile! Handle with CARE!0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
11 comments