pyrodex vs 777/pellets vs loose powder
I just purchased a t/c omega and spent some time at the range with it today. I only had two different bullets- cvs powerbelts 240gr and t/c xtp mags 240gr. I am using 777 pellets (2 50gr pellets) and the preformance was not what i expected. I'm not looking for moa, but 2-3 inches at 100yds. My ? is, would pyrodex pellets be more accurate to use than 777 pellets? Also I have heard that using the loose powder is far more accurate since loads can be tailored. Would using 90 grains of loose powder or 110 gr for that matter make that much of a difference in accuracy? Any input is appreciated.
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In my opinion you have to experiment with loads,bullets and find what your gun likes the best. Do not overload,start out low on powder charge and work your way up to find out what works best.
I shoot Knight 250g saboted bullets with 90 grains of pyrodex in my knight muzzleloader. When I shoot 405g bullets,I step up to 100 grains of powder.
BTW,I just bought some triple 7 and have not shot any yet,but I have heard good things about it.
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777 loose the only way to go for us modern inline hunters. Pellets are expensive and unpredictable. Try several bullet combos with loose 777 powder from 100-120gr and I'm sure you find a load you'll be happy with. Let me know what weights you want to shoot and I'll recommend something and probably have chronographed it or a similar load. 0 -
I'd like to use the powerbelts 295gr. If you have any info on this load it would be appreciated. 0 -
I just chronographed some a 295gr Powerbelts few weeks ago out of a Knight T-Bolt with a 22" barrel and 110gr of loose 777 ffg gave 1600 fps with reasonable accuracy, but not suitable to my standards. They may work better in your gun, but if accuracy is what you are after I would suggest sabot loads. Harvester makes an easy load sabot that gives easy load capability and the flexibility to use the bullet of your choice-much cheaper than Powerbelts. These are available from www.Grafs.com and are rated for heavy loads. Also, your gun may shoot these at a higher velocity because of the longer barrel of the Omega + 209 primers. I'd start at 100 and got to 120gr of powder. Why are you so determined on using Powerbelts? In my experience changing bullets is more likely to improve accuracy than changing powder charges within reason. 0 -
I also shoot Power Belts and use Triple 7 pellets with good accuracy. May be just me, but I have found when I get into the "magnum" loadings (over about 110 grains) that accuracy suffers in my TC Black Diamond. Also you begin to get centerfire-like recoil. I have had no problems with ignition on either pyrodex or 777 pellets, including in a TC Hawken with musket nipple.
My heros have always killed cowboys.0 -
I don't know about the in-lines, but in my 50 cal. Hawken replica, I had to back 777 off to 90 grains to keep it from cutting patches.
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When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad, and that is my religion.
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I was at the range today and shot 245 gr t/c mag sabots, 245 gr powerbelts, and 295 gr powerbelts, with the t/c mag sabots giving me the "best" accuracy. By best I mean 3" group. I was really hoping that this Omega would do better than this. What should I try next. I have talked to people who say their omegas shoot great with Pyrodex pellets. Would using pyrodex pellets over 777 pellets make that much of an accuracy improvement? I would like to stick with the convenience of pellets, but if necessary, I guess I'll use either 777 powder or pyrodex powder. 0 -
Hey fellows you all are talking Greek to me because all I have ever shot is pure black powder but I have to pass this one along. I was getting certified to teach 4-H BP shooting this past wekend and one of the instructors was telling me that if you put in the first pellet the right way (I reckon the hole end down?) and then put in the second pellet the oppisite way, then put in the Saboted bullit you have created a tracer round!?! OK has any one tried that one and if so tell me about it. I might be talked into useing some pellets if I can have a little fun with them![}:)]
God protect me from my friends, I can take care of my enemies...0 -
Ok, you seem serious about your search for accuracy and I know what you're going through, I had the same problems a couple of years ago.
We read all the hype about inline performance but fall short at the range! I'm telling you the first thing you have to do is forget about the pellets. I have used them, even made my longest kill with a muzzleloader with them-luck shot though. The key is consistancy with your load method. Wet, dry swab between each shot, no lubes or seasoning agents when using sabots. Now, in reality the heavier bullets (300gr) often give better accuracy in 1 in 28 twist guns, but most inline shooters want velocity. So, that said 240gr 44 cal or 240-260gr 45 cal bullets are usually my choice in sabots. Now here's the secret.....SHHH.....index the sabot so the petals correspond to the rifling and recover your fired sabots and inspect and adjust until all rifling grooves are on the petals. Once you have found the spot, load all sabots the same way. This will shrink your group and eliminate those unexplained fliers. This will only work of course if you have prepared the bore in a consistant manner and referenced the proper seating depth on the ramrod. Also I highly recommend buying a couple brands of sabots and the bullet you intend to use separately this allow further tayloring. Your recovered sabot should look like this.0 -
This is NOT what a recovered sabot should look like!!0
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This what I mean by "indexing" aligning the slit in the sabot to the same spot each time so that the rifling is centered in the petals. See first picture. I hope this helps, I think it will!0 -
As if I haven't been long winded enough I forgot a couple of things.
1) both of the sabots shown are actually fired sabots using the same amount of 777 (110) the first one is a Harvester that held a 240gr Sierra JHC 44 cal. The second held a 45 cal. 250gr Hornady XTP and is a Hornady "High Velocity" sabot.
2) Even though the Omega has that QLA muzzle the indexing principal will still work, it may take a little experimenting to find the sweet spot for indexing though.0 -
I can get a better group with my Remington 700 MLS .50 than I can with my Rem. 700 BDL SS DM in .300 win (about MOA).
As some have eluded to, if you try to get the maximium velocity out of the gun, then typically accuracy will suffer. For instance, my Rem. inline can handle up to 150 grains of powder, but the manual suggest 120 grains of loose powder instead. After much experimentation I found the best load for it was 2 pellets (100 grain total) with a cheap 240 grain copper jacketed bullet. I tried a lot of different bullets and a few powders and that is what I came up with.
In my experience however, if you can't keep the gun in a 2-3" group almost all the time from a rest then double-check your consistancy of your loading technique. I've jumped 50 grains on both sidelock and inlines and had little change (as long as the patch or sabot held).
Don't feel you need to run your gun full-charge to take a deer. I wore out my sidelock because I was shooting maximium charge all the time. I sure wish I hadn't shot out the barrel.0 -
My T/C Encore must be weird, it shoots the 240gr w/sabot best with 3-50gr pyrodex pellets (MOA groups). 2-3 MOA with loose 2F or Pyro RS. Haven't tried the 777 yet (and don't know if I'm going to, either).
I do the wet than dry patch between shots, made a big diference, also mine likes to have NO lube in the barrel (first shot with lube in will be 3 inchs out of the group) so, after sight in I clean only, and save the barrel lube until ML season is over.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0
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