7.62 and .308
Okay I was watching a show about snipers and they were using rifles in the 7.62 nato. Today I was doing a search on the nato round, and came up with alot of info on the .308 too. So what is the difference of the two, and which one is better?
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SAME ROUND
I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.0 -
The .308 vs. 7.62 NATO issue has been discussed at length, and the general impression I've gotten is: .308 and 7.62 NATO aren't quite the same round. If you have a rifle chambered in .308 Winchester, you can shoot 7.62 NATO in it, but---and this is what I've heard---going the other way is not advisable. And I believe that the pundits here have mentioned that the chamber pressures aren't the same. I have also heard that the manufacturing tolerances on the NATO round are slightly different too, as well as case-thickness.
All that aside, I think you'll find that the upshot is: You can safely use 7.62 NATO in a .308 Win rifle.0 -
The .308 Winchester and the 7.62 NATO (7.62 x 51mm) are evolved from the same original specifications. I've heard that there are differences (albeit slight) due to the requirements of military weapons versus civilian longarms.
A quick search using google pulled up the following link with some great info: http://users.adelphia.net/~22x9/gaarchive/arc1-001.html
Cheers,
NoStick0 -
There is no difference. Only that different manufacturers build the same spec differently. It is the same with the .223 Remington and 5.56 - also the 9MM NATO and the 9MM Parabelleum, 9MM Luger, 9X19. Anyone who says that they are not the same is incorrect. 7.62 NATO (as all other NATO spec rounds), is however, only loaded in full metal jacket, due to the NATO countries being signatories to the Geneva Conventions, which forbid the use of expanding bullets. 0 -
is there a big difference between the 7.62x39 and the .308?
In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
-Beck (1993)0 -
They are not the same. The misconception that they are the same is very commonly held. Below is a link to a site which examines the differences; there are other places to look as well.
Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manuf. Institute (SAAMI) sets the specs for the .308 Win. NATO sets the specs for the 7.62NATO.
For safety, shoot only the cartridge for which the firearm is chambered.
The .308 Win was an offshoot of the program to develop the cartridge which eventually became the 7.62NATO. This program was trying to meet proposed military specs for a smaller, lighter cartridge that would match (nearly) .30-06 performance. Winchester had a cartridge that met performance specs but only at higher pressure than the proposal allowed. They decided to introduce the cartridge as a civilian round for modern bolt-action rifles.
Further development resulted in the cartridge that became the 7.62NATO. There are differences in case dimensions and thickness, chamber dimensions, and allowable max pressure (NATO 50,000psi, SAAMI .308WIN 60,000psi)
A good match tight .308 WIN chamber will not permit the bolt to close on a proper 7.62NATO cartridge. A 7.62NATO chamber (especially a "loose" one) may result in excessive headspace issues if a .308WIN is chambered.
While some modern rifles will handle either cartridge, I personally do not recommend the practice. It is unwise to shoot .308WIN in older bolt-action rifles that have been re-chambered to 7.62NATO, particularly small-ring Mausers, due to pressure and headspace issues. As Python has attested, a properly built rifle on a solid Mauser '98 action, chambered to .308WIN, can shoot .308 WIN safely. I would not shoot .308WIN out of a small ring Mauser even if it were properly chambered for .308WIN. Shooting .308WIN out of a small ring chambered for 7.62NATO or 7.62CETME is just asking for trouble.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/7_62vs308.htm
www.saami.org for the .308WIN. (Specs not on-site, I think; you have to buy them in printed form.)
TM 43-0001-27 (technical manual) has specs for the 7.62NATO cartridges.
redcedars0 -
Bushnell boy, there is a large difference between the .308 and the 7.62x39, as far as a hunting cartridge goes the effective range of a .308 is about 300-350yds+-. The effective range of the 7.62x39 is 150yds+- and less. 0 -
Just keep in mind that when ever you see 7.62 NATO you are looking at a particular loading for the cartridge. There are several loadings available, but we can basically concern ourselves with only four: Two of these are 150gr ball loadings for the M14 service rifle and M60 GPMG and the other two are national match loadings only for the M14 rifle. While the deminsions of the .308 Winchester are nearly (though not exactly) identical to the NATO round, the loadings can vary just as redcedars mentioned since SAAMI sporting specs are not at all like NATO specs for member nations weapons systems. If you have an M1A an HK-91, or other military style rifle you should be using NOTHING but the NATO loadings since these rifles were deisigned aorund this particular cartridge and bullet weight/type and often won't work well with any others. If you are shooting a .308 sporting rifle like a Winchester Model 70 you can use both sporting ammunition as well as military spec ammo, although that ammo is basically useless for most hunting applications and most hunters avoid MILSURP for this reason.
Mark T. Christian0 -
This is one of the things I like about this forum: On some issues, you get a near-50/50 split with replies.
"It's the same round."
"There's significant differences."
"No real difference."
"Different chamber pressures and slightly different dimensions."
EEEEEK!
I consulted the fellows who run the gun store where I buy most of my shootin' irons, and they agree with the folks who say there's differences in chamber pressure and "tolerances" (for this read: dimensions) as well as differences in case-thickness. So I'd go with the (somewhat more) concensus opinion that .308 Win and 7.62 NATO are NOT EXACTLY the same round, but close enough that you can use 7.62 NATO in a .308 Win rifle, but not vicey-versey.
Anyhow, that's the gospel I go by--having purchased a lovely Remington 700 VLS chambered in .308 Win, and purchased some inexpensive 7.62 NATO FMJ to punch paper with, after being assured by the gang at the store that it was perfectly safe to do so. The only thing they warned me about was not to expect real tight groupings with the NATO stuff...
"Any law worthy of the name restricts its enforcers as well as its subjects..."
.... Dr. Stuckart (Colin Firth)
in the HBO film "Conspiracy"0 -
quote:On some issues, you get a near-50/50 split with replies.
"It's the same round."
"There's significant differences."
"No real difference."
"Different chamber pressures and slightly different dimensions."
I have provided sources to support my statements.
quote:So I'd go with the (somewhat more) concensus opinion that .308 Win and 7.62 NATO are NOT EXACTLY the same round, but close enough that you can use 7.62 NATO in a .308 Win rifle, but not vicey-versey.
Not exactly. As I said above:
quote:There are differences in case dimensions and thickness, chamber dimensions, and allowable max pressure (NATO 50,000psi, SAAMI .308WIN 60,000psi)
A good match tight .308 WIN chamber will not permit the bolt to close on a proper 7.62NATO cartridge. A 7.62NATO chamber (especially a "loose" one) may result in excessive headspace issues if a .308WIN is chambered.
The 7.62NATO is a lower-pressure cartridge with more robust brass designed to be used in semi-auto rifles in military situations. The .308WIN was intended for use in modern bolt-action rifles designed to manage its higher pressures, in sporting situations.
There are a lot of old mil-surp rifles out there, originally chambered for lower pressure cartridges, that have been re-chambered to 7.62NATO. Generally, these do not bear proofs indicating the rifle was re-proofed for the higher pressure cartridge. Shooting the even higher pressure .308WIN in these rifles, not designed for the pressure it develops, and quite possibly with a chamber that is out of spec for it, (as in excessive headspace) is not advisable.
Some members here have discovered that the bolts of their .308WIN chambered rifles will not close on 7.62NATO cartridges. Some .308WIN chambered rifles will close on 7.62NATO; it depends on how close to minimum chamber size it has been reamed. Unfortunately, the old bolts rechambered to 7.62NATO will close on .308WIN.
redcedars0 -
The more I hang around here, the more I learn. Thanks, once again, for your expert information. So long, to a misconception I had held for MANY years - since around 1956, when I read that the rounds were identical. 0
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