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.38-44 HD problem

2520wcf
I inherited an S&W .38 special ca.1952 w/plain service stocks and 4" fixed-sight barrel. It is what I believe is called an S&W ".38-44 Heavy Duty" or "Pre-Model 20"--the serial number is preceded by an "S". Gun is near mint and shows no signs of having been fired (no cylinder ring at all),and now I know why.

It functions perfectly until you actually try to fire it with live rounds, then it balks and often ties up so that you can't fire it in either double or single action. You can open the cylinder and eject the rounds, and then it cycles fine, with all the clicks in the right places--I'm familiar with using S&W DAs and have never had this problem with a couple of dozen I've owned and shot. I've cleaned it thoroughly. Doesn't help. Sometimes it will fire up to 3 shots consecutively, then stop. Match wadcutters will make one big hole at 25 yards if you can get it to shoot enough for a group. But it doesn't want to shoot...

This is a big beautiful N-frame and I know better than to try my Fibber McGee (does that date me?) "gunsmith" skills on it. Who would you recommend I send it to for a fix? S&W factory? Any particular pistolsmith who would fix it and not ding it up in the process?
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  • rockford
    quote:Originally posted by 2520wcf
    I inherited an S&W .38 special ca.1952 w/plain service stocks and 4" fixed-sight barrel. It is what I believe is called an S&W ".38-44 Heavy Duty" or "Pre-Model 20"--the serial number is preceded by an "S". Gun is near mint and shows no signs of having been fired (no cylinder ring at all),and now I know why.

    It functions perfectly until you actually try to fire it with live rounds, then it balks and often ties up so that you can't fire it in either double or single action. You can open the cylinder and eject the rounds, and then it cycles fine, with all the clicks in the right places--I'm familiar with using S&W DAs and have never had this problem with a couple of dozen I've owned and shot. I've cleaned it thoroughly. Doesn't help. Sometimes it will fire up to 3 shots consecutively, then stop. Match wadcutters will make one big hole at 25 yards if you can get it to shoot enough for a group. But it doesn't want to shoot...

    This is a big beautiful N-frame and I know better than to try my Fibber McGee (does that date me?) "gunsmith" skills on it. Who would you recommend I send it to for a fix? S&W factory? Any particular pistolsmith who would fix it and not ding it up in the process?




    I'm wondering if your cylinder pin is in need of tightening?

    Just a thought.

    Fred
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  • rockford
    quote:Originally posted by rockford
    quote:Originally posted by 2520wcf
    I inherited an S&W .38 special ca.1952 w/plain service stocks and 4" fixed-sight barrel. It is what I believe is called an S&W ".38-44 Heavy Duty" or "Pre-Model 20"--the serial number is preceded by an "S". Gun is near mint and shows no signs of having been fired (no cylinder ring at all),and now I know why.

    It functions perfectly until you actually try to fire it with live rounds, then it balks and often ties up so that you can't fire it in either double or single action. You can open the cylinder and eject the rounds, and then it cycles fine, with all the clicks in the right places--I'm familiar with using S&W DAs and have never had this problem with a couple of dozen I've owned and shot. I've cleaned it thoroughly. Doesn't help. Sometimes it will fire up to 3 shots consecutively, then stop. Match wadcutters will make one big hole at 25 yards if you can get it to shoot enough for a group. But it doesn't want to shoot...

    This is a big beautiful N-frame and I know better than to try my Fibber McGee (does that date me?) "gunsmith" skills on it. Who would you recommend I send it to for a fix? S&W factory? Any particular pistolsmith who would fix it and not ding it up in the process?




    I'm wondering if your cylinder pin is in need of tightening?
    Should have said the cylinder rod, my mistake.
    Just a thought.

    Fred
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  • 2520wcf
    Good suggestion; I can't remember if I tightened it when I first cleaned the revolver, but I'll do it tonight and take it to the gravel pit when I go fishing tomorrow (assuming the remains of the hurricane don't screw that up). I remember tightening up all the screws, but not the ejector rod.... Thanks; hope it's that simple.

    Just in case, has anyone sent a revolver to S&W for work recently? How'd they treat you?
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  • 2520wcf
    Tried the ejector rod; it was tight. Anyone have any other suggestions or advice about a gunsmith/experience with S&W factory repairs?
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  • v35
    Sounds like a headspace problem. Using an automotive feeler gage with the cylinder pushed forward, there should be about a .005" gap between the case head and the recoil shield and a .005" gap between the front of the cylinder and the rear of the barrel.
    Let us know what the clearance is both front and back with the cylinder held forward.
    Best case scenario is that a few thousandths has to come off the rear of the barrel. Doing this right without damaging the finish is a delicate job.
    Given the like new condition of the gun, S&W may be your best bet. I would have an agreement up front that the gun is not to be refinished.
    I was lucky enough to get two pristine guns that were set aside after jamming from factory defects. One was an old deluxe Ithaca 37 and the other an 1860 Colt Army revolver.
    From the condition you describe
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  • 2520wcf
    Thanks, guys--I'll check out both possibilities. The cartridges I tried for function were reloads that I got from a local shop. They function fine in my OM Blackhawk, but may still be the problem with the Smith. I'll look at the cases and try the other fixes that you suggest and let you know what I find out (probably not 'til next weekend when I can get to the range). This was my grandfather's "funeral and citation gun"--he never fired it and carried it only when he was forced to come to formal, uniformed formations and carry a .38 Special revolver. After his service in WWI, he never carried anything but a 1911 .45 when he thought he actually might have to use his sidearm. So he may not even have known that the .38/44 had a problem.
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  • rhmc24
    The above replies pretty well cover the possibilities. I had a
    .38-44 that had the same problem, altho an older gun in exc condition. I found that after a few rounds, the very small amount of fouling at the cylinder mouth closed the gap between cyl and barrel, causing a bind to where you had to help the cylinder turn when cocking the piece. There are washers to correct this, probably available from Brownell, that are placed down in the cyl where it spaces against the crane. Intended to correct wear, if you install those washers, the head space is affected. First you have to find if it is cylinder bind and then whether it is at the cyl-bbl gap or head space, as other have described.
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  • Xracer
    The above posts about cover it, but the first thing I'd try is to shoot some factory loads. It may be that those reloads are the problem.
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  • 2520wcf
    Thanks for all the suggestions, guys! Xracer, I finally got to the range with a box of factory WW .38 midrange wadcutters and ran through the whole box with nary a balk. So you were right; the reloads were the problem. I believe that they may not have been fully resized down to the rim and also that they were loaded with Unique, which can be a little dirty. This old Smith is really tightly fitted (not for trench warfare...) and needs clean burning ammo and frequent cleaning. But it really shoots! Thanks for the tip!
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