If there was ever a topic for the experts...
this is it...or at least in my perspective. I need help fighting bureaucracy. I am 1-2 weeks away from getting my FFL (after 6 months), and it seems that my local county zoning dept. (the only one in this state), has a restriction prohibiting almost ANY type of home based business in a "residential zone". The ATF called me this afternoon and told me that it would be in my "future best interests" if I would withdraw my current application...and reapply when I could meet the local zoning requirements. Are there any Jefferson County, WV FFL dealers here that may know of any political allies that may be able to help me with this situation?????????? I have spent the last 6 months preparing to launch this new business...only to have this major blow delivered today. This is a VERY time sensitive issue. I have until 1500hrs Friday (when the local ATF agent brings me the withdrawl paperwork) to get a variance, or whatever else, to correct this problem...or I get the shaft...and have to restart the whole process again. My plans were to start this business from our home, and move to a retail location after this business had raised the capital needed to do so. This was not our sole source of income, so this definitely could have been a "dream in the making" for my wife and I. Please, if there is anyone that may be able to help us with this situation...we would be in your debt. Thank you!
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Eric
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Eric
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You might be able to go to a storage rental lot, you know, rent a 10X20 storage away from your residential area. I know in the past ATF has allowed some to use that for the physical address and your home for the mailing address.
The zoning commission can't beef because I'm sure some of them have paperwork from their work at home!
NOTE: UPS would have to be told which addess to deliver to. ALSO; Get the most secure storage you can find. Compound, lights, watchman on premises 24/7, Armored padlock (like on military powder magazines).
I would contact your local ATF agent and run it by him.
Good luck!
Life Member Social Security, King of Siam, Triathlete, Space Traveler, Co-inventor of the Internet, nuclear engineer, Publisher's Clearing House Prize winner, etc., etc.0 -
I know this was not the plan, but do you know anyone with a shop? (store) Hardware, feed store, any kind of office, a room in the back of a restaurant? Anything "commercial" will do. When I got my license, I went in with a fella that had a storefront already. Gave him a few bucks a month to "officially" have my license (and a safe) there. Was not too far from home. So "officially" I had a store, but I actually did all my work out of my home. I did this for the same reason that you mentioned (zoning) no way to get around it at the time. Good luck.
The gene pool needs chlorine.0 -
Sorry to say, but it looks like you're fighting an "Uphill Battle".
It's easy to say that maybe you should have looked into this before
you started the process, but hindsight is always "20/20".
The "storage unit" place of business scares the heck out of me for
obvious reasons.
And, even if you win the battle-the "Powers-That-Be" in your city and zoning board will be on your case indefinitely, if you try an "End Run" to circumvent the law.
Find a "store front", work with the BATF people and your city officials and I would think that the matter could be expedited
with everybody concerned, since the background check and everything related to your application has been done.
This would certainly show "good faith" on your part and will make
life easier for you over the "long haul".
As to getting the "Shaft", it may appear this way-but, if this is
the written law in your jurisdiction-you are in fact just getting
the effects of the law.
I'd get more active and promote changing the law, if that's what you
must do to have the "home based" FFL.
Best of Luck to you and yours!
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NRA Benefactor Life Member0 -
The same thing happened to me and a partner I had lined up. Everything was in order but the zoning. We really hadn't given much thought to zoning since there was a business right next door. It turns out it had been "grandfathered". After lots of effort and legal fees we made it through the zoning folks but they were so ticked off that the put the county health department on us. The county health department stopped us by declaring the location "unfit for commercial use" because we were on a septic system rather than a sewer. Well, back to your problem, if you really want to try to push the zoning board, the only real hope you have is to claim that the zoning board is prohibiting you from attaining the "highest and best use" of your property by preventing you from opening your business. Essentially with this argument, you will be contending that the zoning board is taking money out of your pocket and that the board is taking your property without compensating you for it. It's a very long shot and I'm no lawyer, but I think that it's the best you have. On the down side, this approach would start an appeal process that in many communities usually takes months. I don't see any hope of getting anywhere by Friday. Please keep us posted -- Best of luck -- Steve 0 -
HAVE YOU APPEARED BEFORE YOUR ZONING BOARD??HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY FFL. WENT TO THE BOARD WITH A LIST ON HOME RUN BUSINESS IN MY COUNTY. THEY GAVE ME A LETTER TO THE AFFECT THAT IT WAS OK TO DO MY BUSINESS OUT OF MY HOME. NEXT I WOULD RENT AN ADDRESS FOR ANY BUSINESS IN TOWN THAT HAS THE CORRECT ZONING. YOUR INVENTORY DOES NOT NEED TO BE AT THAT ADDRESS. WHAT SPRING CREEK SAYS MAKES GOOD BUSINESS SENSE. GOOD LUCK
I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.0 -
Without a varience you are just about dead in the water. On the face of the FFL you will see two places for an address; the top listing is for your licensed premises...where you intend to conduct business. This area MUST be open and accessible to the public who you plan to serve. A locked storage "closet" in a fenced in storage lot, with no telephone, where you seldom if ever visit is not going to meet the definition of premisis. The other address is your mailing address and this can be any place you wish to have your mail delivered. I use a PO Box here in town.
As far as the BATFE is concerned you can have storage areas all over town, they don't care where you store your fireams. They do mandate that your records be at your licensed premisis so as to be available for inspection. After they've looked at your bound book and your 4473's the two of you can drive over to the local "Lock & Store" and check out the inventory to see that everything matches with your books. The licensed premisis is where you records are going to be stored and where your business is conducted so if you need a business license or a varience this address (your home) must appear on it. I am sorry but if this has been an on going process for the past 6 months I fail to see why this zoning issue was not addressed FIRST thing and taken care of right away. If you'd gone to your county 6 months ago and asked for a hearing on a varience, by now you'd have had your hearing date and a varience would have either been granted or denied and you'd know which way to procede. By friday? Impossible!
Mark T. Christian0 -
You can thank the Clinton years for this one. The ATF was pressured into finding ways to reduce the # of FFL's. As a result a letter was sent to all levels of state governments, saying in effect that if there was not a zoning law against home type gun shops the local government may find themselfs in a lawsuit if someone sued the gun business. Many with out even checking the legal aspects, changed zoning laws very quickly & quietly, catching the pro gunners off guard. There have been some law suits by FFL's against local gov.'s but I don't know the outcomes
1. A couple of good ideas in the above posts.
2. Try contacting the NRA, see if there is someone in the local area to help, Lawyer, etc.
3. Go to the local city,township,county, office get a copy of in home business ordance, do not tell them your plans, read it! do not take the word of the ATF/ did you get or see a copy of the form that the county/city/township has to fill out for the ATF?/(approve/disapprove)did some clerk there/turn you down/sign it/ instead of the head of the board/commision? Do you know anybody on the board? Talk to them. How many home business do you know of in your area? Avon/Stanly/Mary Kay/Tax people/car repair/Roofers/land scapers/etc.
4. If you have been thinking about it this, is a great time to buy a new/different home. Maybe in another county.
5. I know its no help now/ But from now on every time you vote make sure you know even down to the dog catcher/ how they feel about your gun rights.0 -
I hate to be mean, however as other have stated zoning is the first thing you should of looked into. I'm trying to do the same thing as you. However my first step right now is trying to get zoning. Let me tell you it's not easy and it will cost you. Just to have a hearing it is goning to cost me $200 up front. Then my legal fees. I figure I will have $1000 into my first round of trying to get my varience. Good luck 0 -
After rechecking my pubs, you can operate "by appointment only", have a cell phone, and draw inventory from your "warehouse".
Before you commit to any plan, run it by your ATF guy. In this part of the country they're not the ball busters or automatons some folks would have you believe.
They have some leeway in how they let you operate.
In my experience, as long as you are an honest dealer, make every effort to comply with the rules and regs, they will help you get into business. They are human and how you approach them has paramount importance. It never hurts to ask.
Everybody's right about the zoning though. Unless you bribe the planners*, hang it up and cut your losses. Nobody wants "explosives" in the neighborhood.
In my first post, I didn't mention renting a corner from someone else's store because from your narrative, it sounded like you wanted to get your own storefront. Besides, is ANYONE trustworthy enough to leave your weapons with?
Are an established business's junior (read teenagers) employees an acceptable risk? This senario would work provided suitable security and division could be maintained.
Anyway, don't despair, you have a number of options. Good luck!
*DON'T REALLY TRY TO BRIBE THE COUNTY PLANNERS
Life Member Social Security, King of Siam, Triathlete, Space Traveler, Co-inventor of the Internet, nuclear engineer, Publisher's Clearing House Prize winner, etc., etc.0 -
Thanks to everyone for the input. You have given me some ideas to try. I did check with the local sherrif's dept. prior to starting this whole process, along with the local ATF office, and I was told that there was absolutely no problem with starting this business out of our home. We did not even think about checking with zoning, b/c it's allowed in the rest of the state. This is a last minute curve ball. My wife and I are getting ready to go down to the planing comission to see if we can get a variance. If that does not work, we'll check into some of these other options. Thanks again![:)]
Eric0 -
If you are even considering the use of an off site storge facility as your licensed premisis you will have to check with the owner of the facility if he will allow you to use your storge locker as a place to conduct business and meet with customers. I would suggest that you locate a locker that you can access 24 hours a day because the BATFE will expect you to be able to enter your licensed premisis at any time, even if you simply had to drive from your own home and over to your store front operation. You also must have some operating hours which the BATFE can conduct on site inspections so these will have to be explained to the storgage lot owner. Be prepared to provide the BATFE with a letter from the owner of the storage facility giving you the okay to use your storage locker as a place of business. The storage facility may have a zoning issue with this sort of thing as well and your rental agreement with the facility may very well prohibit the use of the lockers for anything other than storage. Do your homework!
Mark T. Christian0 -
for someone who put as much effort into launching a business, i cant believe you didnt know or hear about residential restrictions. give up. you lost. or....go rent a business property. welcome to retail overhead. rule of thumb...rules are in place to protect the citizens from harm. period. too many bad things come along with the baggage with a gun business. too many things can happen and its for this reason,(through years of councils experience,) that gun shops in residential areas cant exist. what i did was to have my business MAILING address my home and made my work and customer area in a business zone. the guns were no where near my home. follow me? 0 -
I am thanking my lucky stars we are not zoned in any way, shape, or form.
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a buddy of mine started his up in the same shop as a jelwery store..(rented floor space)..worked out great....free security to boot!
it is good that we meet in the struggle of life or death.. .....it shall be life!0
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