One Last Shotgun Question...I think.
Okay, I received excellent information on my Remington question and I have one more, this time about Winchester. Back in 1970 or so, my dad gave me a Winchester Model 1200 pump in 12 ga. It has a 26" barrel, improved cylinder. It is a bit heavier than many shotguns today but I have always loved the quality and silky smoothness of this shotgun. Someone told me that at some time Winchester was making these guns in Japan. I was wondering if anyone has any opinions on the 1969-1970 ear Winchester pump guns. I love it and, well, instead of getting a new one, I may just have this one fixed up (barrel got a little rust and pitting and a gunsmith cleaned it up but used a flatter blue than the way it originally was.
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maybe someone can tell us before you have to look, but see if that winchester has dual rails on the forearm please? btw...cnc machining is only as good as the man who programs it. the rule of thumb to determine a craftsman or expert is when the computer goes offline, if he can still run the line and not slow the production effort. ive had men program a cnc machine without getting zero and wonder why its off. just ask 'al' over at hi standard why their bbl sights are cut on the side of the bbl instead of the top sometimes! if you dont know how to make a jig, what goods a cnc machine! old world american labor did! when hi standard left conn, they lost the brain pool that ran it for 60 years! anyway, keep the old 1200. youll be happy with it. ive never known a gun with rust to miss a bird because of the rust!
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
1200 model was well made (not quite as nice as the old 12). Should state "made in Japan" on the barrel. I owned many Winchesters from this time frame and had excellent luck. Well worth the expense of having it refinished. Also may like to check some of the new finishes as they are very durable (some would state that they're not as pretty).
Guess the bobski quotes above were aimed at me about the CNC. Can't disagree with the comment about the person setting up the machine, or the Hi-Standard comment based on the new target pistols I've seen. But some new guns are better out of the box then the old one's in a low price range (remember "gun slick"). Nothing compares to getting a custom made or tuned gun, but the tools allow an expert to be even better.
Keep the gun.0 -
Bobski, Thanks. Your posts are execellent. It has a ventilated rib with a bead at the end. The receiver has been scratched by never rusted which indicates it must be alloy. The gun rusted because some automotive liquids dripped onto it. I was out of the country, hadn't had a chance to change my locks, and my ex-wife was coming over and helping herself to things in my house. So, I wrapped them up and hid them in and around some oily parts from my 68 Charger. 0 -
For geeguy,
Hey thanks for the post. Believe me, your answers really help. If it doesn't say made in Japan, I guess I can assume it was made here. The gunsmith who worked on the barrel said he couldn't take all the pits out because it would make the barrel too thin in some places. He did remove all the rust and reblued it with this kind of semi-flat stuff. The old bluing was very bright. Do you think it might be worth it to get a new barrel from Winchester?0 -
During the time frame you mentioned, (69-70) The only shotgun that was made in Japan for Winchester was the Md 101. You don't say if the pits are in the bore our outside on the barrel.I just checked 5 different Winchester parts, web sites for a 1200 barrel, everyone is out of stock on them right now? The value of the shotgun in mint original condition, is about $250-$350, for someone looking for one. My recommendation keep an eye open and check the barrel section here on GB for a good used barrel. They can run anywhere from $50-$200, depending if it's plain, vent rib, and screw in chokes. Good Luck
Regards Dave0 -
Just a thought, I think the Md 1300 barrel might interchange with the 1200. I normally only deal in pre 64 shotguns, but I thought I read that someplace. Hopefully one of the GB members might be able to confirm that. I believe that 1300s have a 3 in. chamber, if you go that route don't shoot 3 in shells, 1200s were 2 3/4 in, unless it was the Magnum model. Regards Dave 0 -
since this is a forum, nothings really aimed geeguy. if ive offended , please forgive. a cnc setup in the hands of a skilled tradesman is a joy to watch. other gun companies here in the new haven area are good old savage and marlin. in the work force it was sorta like...whoever was hiring, would get whoever was fired! so it was sorta like a family thing in the valley. if you worked marlin, youd see your buddies in savage in time if you got a winchester pink slip! you are right. there are certain guns that are better out of the box; and, out of the box you still cant beat a savage or marlin in my opinion. they still crank them out the way they did for almost 100 years with very minor changes. its kinda neat having grown up in gun world, here in conn.. shame the laws and democrats own conn.. it would be a better place if they werent so liberal. good chatting with you guys. btw.....are 1200's single or double rail forearms? 0 -
For Only Winchesters,
Again you guys came through. I always find good answers on this forum. The pits are on the outside not the inside of the barrel. The gunsmith thought the only problem with them was cosmetic. The shotgun has a ventilated rib, 26" barrel, and came with an improved cylinder choke. It has many rounds through it and shoots great. In fact, after handling other newer shotguns, I am going to keep it. I looked at some Binelli's (spelling?) and then looked at the price. Once I got back up off the floor, the gunstore owner tried to show me a Beretta but I just ran out the door. I am over 40 and can take only so many shocks in one day. What do you think of Browning pumps? Are they worth the money as compared to a Winchester or Remington?0 -
Good afternoon Notpars. A new pump gun, well the Browning BPS and the Remington 870 Wingmaster, (NOT THE EXPRESS) are probably the best for the money. The one thing you haven't said is what kind of hunting/shooting you are going to do? Both the above guns come with screw in chokes, vent rib barrels. The best advice I can give you, go to the local gun shop with your hunting coat. Try shouldering the guns, with your coat on, which one fits you the best? Regards Dave 0 -
john browning was so jealous of the fact that someone from winchester beat him to building a better pump shotgun. j browning always liked the pump idea. matter of fact, browning invented the down eject and ithaca still uses it to this day. loading a browning pump takes a little getting use to. the weakest link on a browning pump is the mag tube release catch. as it wears, it becomes out of time and wont hold the next shell in the mag tube, causing jams. or even worse, it wont let it go! be advised.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
Onlywinchesters knows his stuff. The "made in Japan" guns were all 101's and stated made in Japan on the side of the barrels, they were real good guns. I am also always humbled by how much everyone knows about specific subjects.
You might also try some local gun shows for a new barrel since there always seems to be someone with used shotgun barrels.
Good luck0
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