ballister molina .45's & ballister "ace"
i have a 3 gun set, 1 ballister molina (hafdasa) # B4192, 1 ballister rigaud #13730, and 1 ballister molina (hafdasa) "ace" .22 #94088. all 3 guns range from 95-99%. can you anyone tell me the value of these guns today? i have been out of the market on these guns for several years and could use some honest opinions. thanks for your help
tony
tony
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Well tchrome I see you aren't getting any feedback, so let me try.
I'd say the two 45s are in the $200-$250 range. The Ballesters are a good design and well made, but ther isn't a whole lot of collector interest in them.
I can't help much on the .22 Ballester. I have a couple of the Sistema 27s in .22, (slightly different conversions) and I think I would have a hard time getting the money I put into them out of them. Do you have any extra mags for the .22? I got a couple of extra mags for one of my Sistema .22s, and they are very scarce and valuable to the right buyer.
redcedars0 -
The Ballester Molina .45 or better known as the Ballester-Molina, self Loading locked Breech Semiautomatic Pistol. Recoil Operated, caliber 11.43x23mm (.45acp), Capacity: 7+1 rounds
Sights: Fixed Blade Front, Notch rear drift adjustable for windage.
History of the Ballester-Molina dates back to 1929 when two interprising Spaniards, Arturo Ballester and Eugenio Molina established a company for producing Hispano-Suiza authmotive parts in Buenos Aires. The name of this company was Hispano Argentina Fabrica de Automoviles Sociedad Anonima (HAFDASA), or Spanish-Argentine Automobile Factory, Incorporated. Several years later, HAFDASA hired a pair of engineers, the frenchman RoriceRigaul, and Carlos Ballester Molina ((((a member of both the Ballester and Molina families))))...
Riguad eventually became HAFDASA'S chief engineer, while Ballester Molina, originally responsible for mettallurgy, heat treatment, and production methodologies, became HAFDAASA's Chief Executive Officer...
HAFDASA won a contract with (DGME) 'Direccion General for Army Material'...to supply the Argentine military with trucks, buses and engines. The DGME later commissioned HAFDASA to investigate the potential manufacture of Small arms.
In 1936, in response to the DGME request, HAFDASA began to design and manufature small arms....There was nothing revolutionary about HAFDASA's work. The factory established a pattern of adapting existing designs to satisfy the requirements of the Argentine Military and Police Forces using indigenous materials within HAFDASA's production capabilities. To this end, in 1936, HAFDASA unveiled a semi-automatic carbine based on the Beretta M1918/30 in Calibers 9x19 and .45ACP...
Following the introduction of the two carbines, the DGME requested FAFDASA to produce a PISTOL chambered for thr .45ACP cartridge to serve as an (indigenously produced) replacement for the .45 ACP pistols then in service with the Argentine Military and Police Forces.
The contract required HAFDASA to produce a pistol along the general lines of the Modelo 1916 and 1927 Colt pistols then in Service and to have barrels and Magazines that were interchangable with those pistols.
The HAFDASA engineers began work on this contract in late 1936 or early 1937. the decision was taken to modify the original Browning design to facilitate and economise production along the same lines as two Spanish companies Bonifacio Echeverria, S.A. (STAR) and Gabilondo Y Cia, S.A (Llama). The main changes introduced by these companies were the elimination of the grip safety, a backstrap integral to the frame, and a pivoting trigger with a side mounted sear bar and disconnector. Thehe changes, as applied to the Star Model B pistol were particular influence to HAFDASA's designers.
Consequently, while the completed HAFDASA design bopre a strong external similarity to the Colt M1911A1, only the barrel and magazine are interchangable with the Colt pistol.
The HAFDASA pistol was adopted as the Argentine Army service pistol in 1938. Early pistols were marked "Pistola Automatica Calibre .45 Ballester-Regaud, Modelo DGME 1938"...At some point between 1940 and 1942, HAFDASA changed the trademark name from 'Ballester-Rigaud' to "Ballester-Molina"
Serial Numbers range...
Numbers 1 thru 12,000 made 1938 to 1942...
Numbers 12,000 thru 23,000 made 1942 to 1944...
Numbers 23,000 thru 108,000 made 1944 to 1953...
Of further interest; HAFDASA exported pistols to Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Uruguay and Venezuela...
Value wise the Ballester-Molina Pistols are only worth $250.00 to $275.00....and thats i n Very Good Condition...
The Little .22 Ace by HAFDASA is bringing upwards of $450.00...in Very Good Condition....
Hope this is of some help to you.....Best.......
Appendum----The British contracted with HAFDASA in 1942 thru 1944 to supply DGMF Sisterma Colt M1927 Pistols, a clone of the the 1911A1 Pistol. The serial numbers were prefixed by the letter "B" and the numbers 12,000 and 21000....Its believed that HAFDASA produced between 80,000 and 90,000 .45 caliber Pistols......
Captain Kirk, Tech Staff<P><BR>0 -
thanks so much capt. kirk for your history on the ballister mollina .45s, and the ballister ace. i will be putting these 3 guns up for sale or auction soon....they are all in like new condition.
NO FOR SALE, TRADE OR BUYING ALLOWED ON THE ASK THE EXPERTS FORUM...SORRY...BUT I DON'T MAKE THE RULES....JUST ENFORCE THEM.....0 -
redcedars...thanks so much for your reply and the info..it certainly has helped. as you can see, i will be offering these 3 pistols for sale soon and will go on the opions that you and captkirk have given me...thanks
tchrome
NO SELLING, TRADING OR BUYING ALLOWED ON THE ASK THE EXPERTS FORUM'S...SORRY.......0 -
Wow, what great info from captkirk!
I had noticed the similarities with the Star pistols, although I think the Ballester uses a Colt style trigger, and suspected they were copies of the Spanish copies. Good guns, nevertheless. In fact a dealer friend of mine swears he had a Ballester that was the smoothest and most shootable "military" .45 he ever had. He says he wishes he had never sold it whenever the subject comes up. The .45 I have is certainly a solid and reliable gun.
And I am pleased to hear the value of the Ballester "Ace". Capt, would that apply to the Sistema Ace too? That would keep me in the black, with a little extra for the extra mags!
Feel free to drop me an e-mail when you put them up, I like Argentine pistols.
redcedars
THE ANSWER IS YES...ONLY THE NAME WAS CHANGED...SAME LITTLE GUN..JUST ONE IS OLDER THAN THE OTHER...I'M SURE YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE...THERE WAS NO IMPROVEMENT'S MADE ON THE 'ACE'..SISTEMA/BALLESTER ONE AND THE SAME...0 -
I'd have to say that the .22lr caliber ballister you have will probably fetch more than the two .45acp's togeather if it's in excelent condition. 
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capt kirk's post reminds me of another Ballester tidbit. Britain bought Ballesters too for use in second line units, underground support, etc. Ran across one with British proofs while with a dealer friend of mine. He picked it up for the standard Ballester money and sold it a couple of weeks later to a British collector for a tidy profit. I'm going to see if he remembers any of the details.
redcedars0
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