Benelli M1 vs M3/M4
I have a friend who rave about his M1 Tacticle. I have Mossberg 590s and Remington 11-87/1100/870. I am considering the purchase of an M1 OR an M4. Any opinions comparing the two models will be greatly appreciated.
Why did the US military not like the M1's inertia operating system?
SEMPER FI
Why did the US military not like the M1's inertia operating system?
SEMPER FI
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You wrote.. Benelli M1 vs. M3/M4.
The M3 is not completely like the M4.
Well, other than they're both quite... yes, incredibly cool.!
The M3 is Inertia operated and can be changed from Semi-auto to pump-action in just a second or two.
This is good if you use a variety of shells, from the lightest of sportingloads to the heaviest of huntingloads.
As for your question about why the US Military didn't like the M1 build...
http://lists.travellerrpg.com/pipermail/tml-guntech/2002-June/002795.html
www.guns4ever.com/Benelli_m4.htm
Be carefull with Benelli - not in use offcourse, the gun can handle it.. but you yourself might get hooked on that brand and want more.
I only own a Benelli Super Black Eagle, 12/3?" Semi-auto - but I know for sure, that these babies are addictive.!
I had the pleasure of holding and operating some of the shotguns.
I really like every one of them.
I especially like the M1 Super 90 for it's design and working principles.
The M3 Super 90 is a bit more complicated, but would make a nice addition to any collection or for putting under the bed, ready for uninvited "house guests".
The M4 is also quite beautiful - saw it in a short version with the Benelli Muzzlebrake and collapsible butt-stock.
Now that was sweet - but if I recall right, it's gas-operated and that seriously cuts down on the magazine-capacity. 5 rounds max, with one in the chamber.
The recoil/inertia operated have better opportunities to use magazine-extencions - but the inertia-system demands a butt-stock as the spring-system sits inthere.
The gas-operated can have a standard stock or just a pistol-grip which is good for home defence if you can handle the gun like that.
But I suggest that you try out your friends Benelli M1 - see what it is all about and go from there.
Handle it, shoot it - then I would almost bet, that you'd end up owning one and be raving about it too. [:D]
Don't do anything that I've allready done - That'd be just plain STOOOOOOPID.0 -
Ok. Now that makes sense. If the military specified a short/collasible stock then they could not use the M1 action. I did not know that it is the M3 action that can be switched from semi to pump.
I have not fired my friend's M1 yet. But he does rave about it and is now saving to buy a field version of the same gun. He would prefer if Benelli would offer a field M1 with an 'english' or straight stock though...for upland bird hunting.
Thank you Nanoq, that shed some light.
SEMPER FI0 -
HappyNanoq gave about the best description possible...
He is right, the M4 is Benelli's gas-operated model. There is a couple one more reasons that the military didn't want a recoil-operated shotgun. First, is they are a little more delicate with what types of ammo they shoot reliably, especially if less-than-lethal types are used. Second, an inertial-operated style really requires a solid hold. If I take my Benelli Super Black Eagle and fire standard weight 2 3/4" shells through it without putting it to my shoulder then it will quite often eject the empty chamber without pulling a fresh cartridge into the chamber.
If you want a home defense gun, then I'd go with the M3 personally. If you want a gun that you can hunt anything with, then I'd get the Super Black Eagle. It is basically the better version of the M1... Whatever you choose, you can't go wrong with a Benelli! I have owned a fair amount of shotguns throughout the years; SxS's, O/U's, pump, single, bolt, and auto's and I got rid of all of the other 12 gauge shotguns. The only 12 gauge I have is the Super Black Eagle. I do still have a Remington 1100 .410, but I'd drop it in a heartbeat if Benelli chambered one in .410.
BTW, have your friend show you how easy it is to properly clean the inertial recoil system of the Benelli (M1 or Super Black Eagle) and then compare that to your 1100/1187 Remington. That one feature right there sure makes them worth more in my book!
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
Benjamin Franklin0 -
Well now I must 'hip fire' this M1 then and see how it fires when not held tight. This is the type of info I was seeking.
Thank you, bambihunter.
SEMPER FI0 -
Bambihunter: (and others with a Super Black Eagle)
I got a good tip for you here =o)
If you go to the Italian homepage of Benelli - http://www.benelli.it
Clicks on "English" and the english flag on top right corner.
Clicks "Products & Sales"
Clicks "Shot guns"
Clicks "Super Black Eagle" under Cutting Edge Technology.
Click "Spare Parts Super Black Eagle" at the bottom under "Downloads and links" - this should open an Adope Acrobat Reader-document with the list and drawings of the shotgun.
You will find in the list, that there is a spring-set that is aimed at sporting loads (weaker loads than the usual 3-3?" huntingloads).
Since it's easy to disassemble the Benelli SBE - there should be no trouble in exchanging the spring-set to allow better cycling with light loads.
So if you like the 3?" Benelli Super Black Eagle - but want to use the light loads or practise claytargetting with it also, you can order this spring-set and it would/should cycle better.
Don't do anything that I've allready done - That'd be just plain STOOOOOOPID.0 -
correct. the military doesnt like semi autos. and ...lest we forget murphys law of combat, 'your gun is built by the lowest bidder.' and...'your gun will always jam at the worst possible time.' thus...many armories still stock 870s and mossberg pumps. i know, i use to clean them. anyway....benneli's are over rated in my books. 1/2 the cost is import tax right off the top. and bennells have been around ever since the rebuilding of europe in the late 40's. they were always a cheap gun. then, all of a sudden, the market opens wide up, they give their guns a makeover and they triple, no, quadruple in price. nope..cant fool this old dog. i aint barking! give me an 870 any day.
former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.0 -
Starting in 1986 Benelli redesigned their shotguns and they are not the problem-prone guns they were from the 60's until the mid-80's. Some people will never be converted to something other than what thier used to (maybe that's why the 1911 design is still around?). I have had mine since ~ 1992 and with the exception of the free-hand fire I mentioned (which I don't have a use for anyway, I was just playing around) I've had no trouble at all with it.
My Benelli Super Black Eagle will honestly be the very last firearm I part with, I kid you not! [^]
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
Benjamin Franklin0 -
Bambihunter:
I was thinking the same thing - If I had an 870... he could have that in a heartbeat, if he just left my SBE alone =o)
I can honestly say, having held and operated almost every model of Benelli (not shot all though), that no matter if they were redesigned in the mid-80's - ...
they are beautiful guns, more reliable than anything I've seen, easy and simple to clean.
The only way I would ever sell my SBE, would be if I got TWO SBE's for it. [;)]
As mentioned - you can't go wrong with Benelli.
But with the SBE, you have to remember to feed it right in the "Break in period", because of the precision-machining they recommend that you fire 3-4 boxes of heavy-loaded shells to "Break in" the gun - after that, it will be better at the lighter loads =o)
Don't do anything that I've allready done - That'd be just plain STOOOOOOPID.0 -
Nanoq,
that is what the fellow I know did. He had to go through a break-in of a couple hundred (5-8 boxes) of high or full-power loads before the target, or low power loads would cycle the action. Now the shotgun has no problem digesting any loads (so he tells me).
SEMPER FI0
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