300 Win Mag vs 30 WSM
I'm going to buy a Browning BLR and need advice on the latest 300 WSM. I've heard that it shoots bullets great in 150 grain, okay in 180 but forget 200+ grains. I'm going to shoot mostly 180 grain, but will load heavy for hunts in AK. I reload and plan to load with barnes x or fail safe type bullets for elk. Do I need the 300 win mag for 180 grain bullets and heavier?
Any help would greatly be appreciated.
v/r
Phil
PDT
Any help would greatly be appreciated.
v/r
Phil
PDT
0
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Welcome to the board! There are some here (especially ME) that will tell you that the 300WM is a better all-around choice than the shortened, lighter-bullet-firing WSM. The fact of the matter is, that more powder really does do stuff you can't with less.
Check out the "search" feature up in the right hand corner of the screen by the login spaces, and punch in something like,"300WSM", or,"300Win Mag" and you'll see this topic regularly.
Recently a poster on this or the General Discussion forum stated that accuracy and velocity dropped off faster in the squat case than in its' Daddy.
I would tend to agree just on a physics basis.
If you know it all; you must have been listening.WEAR EAR PROTECTION!0 -
I own a 300WSM and it is an awsome round, Very accurate
and a shorter bolt throw make a Big differnce.BUT I found the Ammo to be VERY Expensive and VERY hard to get in Rural Areas If i had to choose again i would go to the 300 win mag.My 2 cents.0 -
300 Weatherby has even more horsepower then the WSM and the WM. If you are not going to pack a seperate rifle (375H&H) for Alaska, then maybe you might want to consider the Weatherby. 0 -
You might want to take into consideration also that the .300 win is an established cartridge and it is easier to find loaded ammo for, more loads are listed for handloaders, and with more military and law enforcement offices using it it'll likely be here to stay. History has shown that quite often new, sometimes superior cartridges turn obsolete in favor of tried and true favorites. I personally don't think they have enough to offer the risk of that. In fact, the WSM's seem identical all things being equal. Now, for the .300 RUM's, they do have some benefit, but I am still not ready to jump into that bandwagon either.
If for some reason you think you need more power than a .300 win, maybe it is time for it's bigger brother - the .338 mag.
Good luck and welcome to the forum!
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
Benjamin Franklin0 -
I did obtain a 338 RUM on GB recently. It was the stainless, fiber-stocked, BDL. It has a relatively light barrel contour. I have also shot a 300 Win Mag for 18 years.
I was told this round would kick the #@*! out of me. Not so. Recoil was equal to a 12 GA firing slugs. I have shot only factory loads which are loaded mildly. The rifle is very accurate and light-weight.
SEMPER FI0 -
PTURCOTTE,
Welcome to the board! I'm sure that you will enjoy it.
There are a couple of other things to consider when trying to answer something like this, especially short vs. long.
What is the magazine length of the BLR? For the WSM, will it only accommodate an OAL of 2.860" or can you stretch it to 3.000" safely so that it will operate 100% of the time, since any failure is unacceptable. If the magazine length will allow a longer seating, you can enjoy velocities and energies close to those of the 300 WM. The difference will be as little as 60 fps. In the reality of hunting ranges of 300-400 yards, this will mean very little. But if you are limited to the 2.860" length then there will be larger differences in both velocities and therefore energy with any of the bullet lengths. The WSM has a water capacity of 79 grains, whereas the 300 WM holds 94 grains. That 15 grains can be a deciding factor when you opt for the speed and energy.
Since no failure is the ultimate goal, I would probably go with the 300 WM since it is almost as commomly found as the '06. That way if you and your ammunition got separated, your chance of replacing it with acceptable factory loads is very good.
Accuracy for both cartridges is very high no matter what is opined in other places. The WSM is finding it's place in most of the longer range target sports right along with the venerable 300 WM. The 3 WSM's that I'm working with currently are very accurate but are definitely not suitable for hunting. They are set up for long range testing of loads and they are too heavy and awkward to hunt with them.
Good luck with your decision!
gunnut505,
"Recently a poster on this or the General Discussion forum stated that accuracy and velocity dropped off faster in the squat case than in its' Daddy."
WHAT? Using both cartridges, if the bullet is the same and the velocities are the same then the velocity of one cannot fall off faster than the other. Newton's First Law of Physics.
Accuracy is based on both the rifle as a system and the shooter, not just the cartridge that it fires. There are cartridges that we all have come to accept as "inherently" accurate such as the 6PPC. But when it's chambered poorly or shot poorly it can be inaccurate also. Physics doesn't enter into this at all insofar as "falling off faster" is concerned.
I'm not trying to mean spirited. I did a search and didn't find the thread that you paraphrased, so I am going by what you wrote.
Best.0 -
I RECENTLY BUILD TWO IDENTICAL RIFLES IN EACH OF THESE CALS. JUST TO COMPAIR THEM, SAME BARREL/STOCK/TRIGGER ECT. THE .300 WIN. MAG. OUT SHOT THE .300WSM WITH THE 180 GN. BULLETS I USED. BY OUT SHOT I MEAN MORE VEL. AND MORE VEL./GRAIN OF POWDER. .300 WIN. MAG. WAS ABLE TO PUSH THE 180 TO OVER 3000 FPS (CRONAGRAPHED) WHILE THE BEST I COULD DO WITH THE .300WSM WAS 2700/2800 FPS. BOTH RIFLES HAD 24" BARRELS. ACCURACY WAS ABOUT THE SAME BUT THE 300 WIN. MAG HAS MORE H.P. 0 -
I found some very useful info in this thread...even though I did not post it.
Thanks 'MW' and nononsense!
SEMPER FI0 -
Hey Mike!
Yes, I read the description of your experiment a few days ago. It is these types of trials that really interest me. I printed it out and have it in my notebook with some of the other information that I have gathered regarding the 300 cartridges.
I've run a few trials myself, using both the 300 WSM and the 300 WM. Both of the rifles were carefully constructed using the same or as close to the same components as possible. It's an easy formula for me since I test quite a bit. Nesika Bay receivers, Lilja barrels, and McMillan MBR benchrest stocks, pillar and epoxy bedded. I've been using Shilen triggers but I might have to try a couple of others. Both barrels were shot with a very minor break in since Dan's barrels rarely require much. The barrels are 29" and approximately a #7 contour. Vias muzzle brakes were used for both. I chronographed and used strain gauges to measure pressure with an Oehler Model 43 Ballistics Lab.
The pressure level of 61,000 PSI was selected by me as a cut off in load development since it is just under the maximum listed for both cartridges. My goal has always been to have a full case of powder that burns completely before the bullet exits the muzzle, with safe pressure and a high degree of accuracy. The bullet that I used for both cartridges was the 210 grain JLK which is a superb Match bullet. Both rifles were shot over the course of several weeks at 100 and 300 yards. The 100 yard groups were nothing spectacular but the 300 yard groups were respectable averaging 1.2" for 5 shots. I think that these bullets require some addition yardage before they settle down into good groups.
Now, the velocities derived by keeping the pressure very close to 61,000 PSI and trying to achieve best accuracy for both cartridges with the same bullet, yielded 2955 FPS for the 300 WSM and 3015 FPS for the 300 WM. These are an average of 20 groups of 5 shots each so some of the velocities varied slightly but nothing significant.
The goofy thing about all of this is that I've watched others shoot and chronograph both of these 300's and get substantially different findings than those that I have. So it doesn't surprise me that we have different information. The best part of this is that we both get to share it.
Best.0 -
THANKS FOR YOUR INFO, I LIMITED MY TESTING TO TWO POWDERS (H4350 & RL-19) AND ONE BULLET (REM. 180 GN B.P., MOLY COATED) JUST TO KEEP IT SIMPLE. 0 -
Nononsense
Why use 29" test barrels instead of the common standard lengths of 22,24 and 26"?0
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