AR-15 Pistol Construction
Can you still legally construct an AR-15 pistol with a lower receiver that has never been used as a rifle? What I was thinking of doing was purchasing a pistol kit from Model "1" Sales that does not have a front sight and therefore no bayonet lug. It would have a flash hider, but would not have any kind of shoulder stock. I would then purchase a new post-ban lower receiver and put it together. I am seriously thinking about this, but I wanted to run it by the experts first for legality purposes. I am not looking to get a tee time at the "Club Fed" golf course anytime. Thanks for the help. If anybody can help me I know its you guys.[:D]
0
-
You have to consider the 50oz weight limit and no barrel shroud of any type. In all, probably not worth the hassle. Check out Olympic arms. They make one with a swiss-cheese style lower to get to the 50oz limit.
__________________________________________________________
"Father, yes son, I want to kill you" - Jim Morrison0 -
Bushmaster has a shorty Barrel, 10" and 11.5 ", the Bayonet Lug can easily be milled off, or the Front site replaced knocking out a pin. Now! you would be a Firearms Manufacturer. Which is as good a way as I know to test the Limits of Our Constitution, and the Attitude of the ATF. GUNMAN: My friend, you may want to start with Alligator wrestling or Rattlesnake Catching before moving directly to ATF Tempting. See if God loves you or not? [;)]
Ronnie G. Perkins0 -
Delta514: Stop spreading misinformation. He would not be considered a firearms manufacturer by assembling a lower. The lower is the firearm.
Gunman: You could build one using a California lower (the mag is permanently attached and you load it with stripper clips by breaking it in half).
Or you could build (and register) an AOW. No weight limit, no assault weapon regs to worry about. Simply a pistol with a forward grip and a paid tax stamp.
Or, do what the Greenlantern suggested and keep the weight down.0 -
Sorry vic, but you're wrong too, at least as far the AOW idea goes.
What we're trying to do is help gunman avoid assembling a "semiautomatic assault weapon", specifically a "semiautomatic pistol". Assembling one of these is now a federal offense; they cannot be assembled as an "AOW". Read Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide (ATF P5300.4) page 7.
Neal0 -
I am working on a laptop from a hotel room, on a business trip, but had to respond. First, it's good to see someone with common interest.
Everything GreenLantern said was correct, there are enough AR typy pistols out there that work fine, it's probably not worth it, unless you just want to be able to accomplish such a task in light of the current regulations. I have a Carbon 15 pistol, those have had a bad reputation, but the later ones seem to be fine, and they were recently bought out by Bushmaster. That should improve their status. The Olympic OA93 or swiss cheesed OA98 would be fine, check out olympic arms web site.
I have heard it's a bit complicated to use an existing AR lower for a pistol project now. I've seen a lot of report of people who have gone through the hassle of buying a stripped lower and having it registered as a handgun. Myself, I've decided to build one out of an 80% complete receiver to avoid such hassle, it's completely legal on the federal level, for an individual to build their own firearm of legal configuration, without even having to report it's construction.
I am taking my project slow, as it is starting to look to me like the assault weapons ban will sunset next year. That will eliminate a great number of the current requirements. For now, I'm just working on the lowers (2) waiting to see what kind of uppers I will put one them.
Hesse Arms (now Vulcan) was promoting some pistol lowers, I have seen VERY few of these actually offered, some folks say they don't really exist (such as joeken). Hesse does have a rather questionable reputation, even worse than Professional Ordnance, maker of the Carbon 15.
You will find a few people building these as single shots, or repeaters, rather than semi-autos, to get around some of the requirements. Myself, I think it's very possible to build one as a semi-auto as long as you comply with weight requirements. That may be a trick, but can be done.
For now, please just do some research, I am including some very informative sites on building such firearms, do some subject searches there and ask some questions, the people on these sites are probably more knowedgeable on the actual technical than most people.
http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi
http://ar15.com/forums/
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
Sorry vic, but you're wrong too, at least as far the AOW idea goes.
What we're trying to do is help gunman avoid assembling a "semiautomatic assault weapon", specifically a "semiautomatic pistol". Assembling one of these is now a federal offense; they cannot be assembled as an "AOW". Read Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide (ATF P5300.4) page 7.
Neal
no, I'm not wrong... an AOW does NOT have to abide with the 94 AW regs. An SBR does...not an AOW. An AOW is not considered a rifle or pistol and therefor is not covered by the AW ban.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
Sorry vic, but you're wrong too, at least as far the AOW idea goes.
What we're trying to do is help gunman avoid assembling a "semiautomatic assault weapon", specifically a "semiautomatic pistol". Assembling one of these is now a federal offense; they cannot be assembled as an "AOW". Read Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide (ATF P5300.4) page 7.
Neal
AND HERE IS THE PROOF IN THE FORM OF AN ATF LETTER. IF YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE ADVICE AT LEAST KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, D.C. 20226
NOV 25 1997 F:SD:FTB:GKD
3311
Dear Mr. :
This refers to your letter of November 6, 1997, requesting
information on the manufacture of a firearm to be classified as an
"any other weapon," as that term is defined in the National
Firearms Act (NFA).
You describe the proposed firearm as being manufactured using an
AR15 type lower receiver that has never been assembled as a
complete firearm and installing a "pistol length barrel," a rear
pistol grip, a vertical foregrip, shrouded barrel and a flash
hider. This firearm would utilize a detachable magazine installed
outside the pistol grip.
A firearm manufactured from the described components and in the
described manner would not be a pistol as defined in either Title
27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 178 or 179, nor would
it be classified as a rifle or shotgun, not being designed to be
held and fired from the shoulder. Further, it is not classified as
a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in Title 18 U.S.C.,
Chapter 44, Section 921(a)(30), hence it is not subject to the
prohibition on the manufacture, transfer or possession of
semiautomatic assault weapons as provided in Title 18 U.S.C.,
Chapter 44, Section 922(v).
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has previously
held that a firearm of the type described in your letter is
classified as an "any other weapon" and is subject to all of the
provisions of the NFA. Such a firearm could legally be
manufactured and transferred by a Class II manufacturer. An
unlicensed individual could manufacture such a firearm by first
submitting an AT Form 1, APPLICATION TO MAKE AND REGISTER A
FIREARM, to ATF. Upon receipt of the approved form, the individual
could then proceed to manufacture the firearm.
- 2 -
Mr.
We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.
Sincerely yours,
[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch0 -
I must have over looked this question some how. With or without the letter from the BATFE to back him up, Vic is 100% correct. There seems to be a misconception that National Firearms Act weapons are either all exempted from or are all subject to the 1994 Crime Bill and this is a serious error. The Crime Bill covers rifles, pistols, and shotguns and as Vic pointed out that since an AOW is neither of the three types mentioned it is not covered by the Crime Bill. A Destructive Device is also a sepertate type of weapon and is not restricted by the Crime Bill. At this time the BATFE has a ruling in effect that machineguns are also exempt from the Crime Bill provisions. Although the cut off date for machineguns registered for civilian trnasfer was some 8 years prior to the Crime Bill, there are a large number of transferable "sears" on the market and it is legal to install these sears in a post ban firearms and add whatever deadly features you wish. If the sear is removed from the firearm it reverts to post ban status automatically and those evil items must be removed. Short barreled rifles and short barreled shotguns must comply with the Crime Bill provisions and suppressor owners should keep in mind that most silencers act as very effective flash hidders and if added to a rifle could be considered a banned feature along with the threaded muzzel to attach the "can". If you live in a so called "free state" the AOW version of an AR pistol might be an easy out for the cost of the $200 NFA tax. Remember that once registered an AOW is only a $5 transfer to the next buyer.
Mark T. Christian0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
8 comments