M60 Machinegun 7.62 & civilian 308 firearms
I have heard numerous Yes & No answers to this issue.. and would like to get your knowledgable opinion.. Can you use 7.62 NATO M60 machinegun ammo (removed from the belt of course)in civilian 308 firearms such as the M1A or the AR10, without threat of damage to the weapon, or poor performance from the ammo?
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TIGER6
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
George Orwell
TARGETS UP!
TIGER6
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Good question Tiger6, I can't imagine any military weapon chambered in 7.62 NATO not being able to use M60 ammo. I have heard of that practice being discouraged in the military but I don't know why. Maybe someone with some serious military background will put in their two cents.
Love them Beavers
SUPPORT THE I.N.S. , THE COUNTRY THEY SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN0 -
Im not claiming to be an expert (far from it) but isnt machinegun ammo loaded so it will have a higher pressure? Would this make it unsafe for some guns?
Go Army Beat Navy
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KingJoey.. Same here.. and I have been and still am working in the military circle.. Heck, I am running ranges of all kinds, and I ought to know the answer.. (BLUSH) Guess I lisetned to all the off the cuff reasons and never thought to dig deeper.. Time for me to get smart on this one..
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
George Orwell
TARGETS UP!
TIGER60 -
Trooper.. Chamber pressure is one I have heard both yes & no answers on! Same with some difference (?) in the size of the casing wall.. ???
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
George Orwell
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TIGER60 -
Trooperchin may be on to something, as beltfed guns usually require more power to operate the feeding mechanisms. I seem to recall the reason being related to the cleanliness of the ammo rather than the loading however.
Love them Beavers
SUPPORT THE I.N.S. , THE COUNTRY THEY SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN0 -
Here are a few specs compared between the 7.62Nato loading and the .308 winchester loading. It's at the bottom of the page.
http://members.tripod.com/T6Aluminum/Load308Win.htm#.308 Winchester / 7.62x51 NATO:
From what I have found out on my own is that most 7.62Nato military surplus stock has a somewhat lower pressure than the current .308 winchester loadings. Almost all of the data I've searched for on the net has supported this. There have been a few exceptions where I run across the occasional website that says don't do it but so far they are in the minority.....I chose the website above because it has a couple links to discussions of this very issue from other websites.
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Run the question the other way. .308 regular civilian Winchester , Remington will function in a belt in an M-60. 0 -
Military ammo and civilian ammo have very little differences in cartridge sizes - not that it matters.
Military cartridges are not as powerfull as civilian huntingloads/-rounds.
The military cartridges are much more robust and have thicker walls - so using military ammo in a civilian rifle - is no problem.
I wouldn't recommend it the other way around, I.E. using huntingloads of any kind in a military weapon - because there can be a difference in the type of chambers. (but it will offcourse cope with the pressure)
A thinwalled cartridge could expand and get stuck in a military weapon.
That's what I keep hearing from friends who have entered into the Danish National Guard. (weekend-warriors type thing).
So - I'd answer yes - Military rounds in a civilian rifle is okay.
Bought some german Army-surplus 7.62Nato ammo, back when I had the Steyr Mannlicher Scout.
It worked well - only thing you might want to consider, is setting the firingpin to a slightly harder setting.
Cartridges for the military - sometimes have a Primer that is a bit tougher to set off, than regular huntingammo have.
I had to tighten the Firing-Pin Spring one setting - to get it totally reliable.
Don't do anything that I've allready done - That'd be just plain STOOOOOOPID.0 -
Tiger, you are entering into an area that has seen much debate. The .308 Winchester is not the same cartridge as the 7.62 NATO. As far as I know, there is no special spec for machine gun ammo, although there are a handful of special spec cartridges, including tracer, match, frangible, proof, etc.
There were a couple of threads on this subject not all that long ago, and Green Lantern (I think) even posted the URL of a site devoted to the distinctions.
redcedars0 -
This is where we could really use ICONOCLAST-- Teak, where are you? Every time I get into ammunition questions I end up making a fool of myself...but I'll try again. The two standard military 7.62mm loadings: M59 Ball and M80 Ball were both usable in the full range of US infantry weapons including the M60 GPMG and the M14 Service Rifle-- I think the difference between the two rounds was in the types of propellent used (Teak???). I believe that the other 7.62mm serivce cartridges: M61 AP, and M62 Tracer were also usable in either weapons system. I am not really sure that there was ever a seperate Ball ammunition loading for the 7.62mm machineguns, although I think there were some special frangible loadings: the M160 (Teak???). I'd say off the top of my head that any delinked 7.62 Ball ammo intended for the M60 GPMG would fuction fine in an M1A rifle, which is basically an M14 Service Rifle.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Uh oh! Can't find the other link .... must be on my computer at work. [:0] Here's the fulton armory one.
http://www.fulton-armory.com/308.htm
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