Vintage Colt 45 Help Please Identify!
I have an old Colt and need help finding it's value....here is what I know from the previous owner....
Colt Automatic 45 calibre Government Model Pistol # C 119623,
The C designates it is Commercial not GI Issue ?
Patented April 20,1897 : Sept. 2, 1902, Dec. 19, 1905, feb.14, 1911, Aug 19, 1913
Horse Logo - Colt P.T.F.A. Mfg. Co, Hartford CT. USA
Rosewood Grips,
Super Blueing
Proper Screws
Everything Matches
No Damage
Rarely fired
The extra clip is in it
Colt Clip Available
Excellent Condition.
Leather Holster marked US with metal belt loops
Colt Automatic 45 calibre Government Model Pistol # C 119623,
The C designates it is Commercial not GI Issue ?
Patented April 20,1897 : Sept. 2, 1902, Dec. 19, 1905, feb.14, 1911, Aug 19, 1913
Horse Logo - Colt P.T.F.A. Mfg. Co, Hartford CT. USA
Rosewood Grips,
Super Blueing
Proper Screws
Everything Matches
No Damage
Rarely fired
The extra clip is in it
Colt Clip Available
Excellent Condition.
Leather Holster marked US with metal belt loops
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You may want to go to the 1911forum . com and ask there. There are many folks over there who could tell you if the gun is correct.
I see it has a lanyard loop mainspring housing which I think was not original on the Commercial series.
Post a left and right picture on the colt forum.
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun has!0 -
Yes, it's an M1911 Commercial, manufactured in 1919.
If the bluing is original, you've got a very nice gun there....with a value of about $1,200-$1,750. The magazine is not original to that gun, nor is the military holster.0 -
The Holster should have a Mfg Date also, if original and in the condition it seems to be, will itself bring Appx $100.00. The Grips are not Original, the Magazine doesn't look to be. This is a 1911 and not a 1911-A1. Could have been carried by a Senior Officer and Special ordered or Purchased. Say the slide is numbered the same as the frame, (take the slide off), the Firing pin hold, has it a serial number? (just cock the hammer and look at where the hammer was). Either way, it is a very nice Piece and if the Blue is original also the parts, is a simple task to replace the Grips and Mag, (I think I have an original mag here, maybe 2)this Pistol could bring as High as $1800.00, best to chase the Serial Numbers, just incase someone important owned it. [;)]
Ronnie G. Perkins0 -
Nice pistol! I am not willing to say the stocks (Colt called them stocks, not grips) are not original. They have the uneven checkering characteristic of that era, and look original to me. I do not believe they are rosewood, which would not be original. I think they are regular walnut, and correct for this pistol.
It is incorrect that commercial pistols of this era do not have the lanyard ring on the main spring housing. They do.
My serial number charts place this pistol in 1919. It probably should have a commercial finish, temperline lanyard ring magazine, which can be found on that big auction site, and sometimes GunBroker, but are expensive as magazines go. Even non-lanyard ring commercial temperline magazines are difficult to find and are also expensive. The magazine is the only flaw I see in the pistol, and getting a correct magazine should be a priority. The poster's statement "Colt Clip Available" makes me wonder if the correct magazine (they are MAGAZINES, not CLIPS!) is available. If so, why picture it with this incorrect magazine?
Like my fruitless quest to stop the misuse of the term "AR-15" to identify AR-15-type rifles that are not so marked on a Colt rifle, the terms M1911 and M1911A1 do NOT apply to commercial Colt pistols of that style. Colt called them "Government Models," and continues to do so to today. Only the military contract guns were identified as Models 1911 and 1911A1. I will probably get about as far with this as with the AR-15 issue, but the distinction is VERY important because the differences greatly affect value and the interest of different groups.
The value of prime specimens like this is going up rapidly, and the values stated are not too high, and maybe a bit low to the correct buyer. A factory letter is needed for this pistol to reveal its history. Since it is probably a 1919 production, I seriously doubt it has any World War I history.0 -
Wow...you guys are good. Thans for the tips/advice/opinions...
It is going to be for sale (In the next week or so)
I guess I will be selling the gun seperate from the holster.
Let me know if I need more pictures (or different pictures)....I am new to the gun thing so your expert advice is important to me.
John0 -
I'm with the judge on this one with the grips. They look correct to also. However I'm not an expert like him. I has hoping he would post so I would know for sure. I didn't want to open my big mouth and be wrong. Thanks Judge. P.S. is the correct mag two tone. 0 -
Mea Culpa, Judge. I was using the "genaric" 1911 designation simply to differentiate it from the A1.
Those grips look original, and, as I view the closeups of the lettering, the blue looks original too.
I'd say that you could advertise this as an original Government Model made in 1919 in 95+% condition.
If you include the magazine, please state that it is not correct to the gun.
Good luck...0 -
RESOURCE: "Fjestad Blue Book"
OUOTE: "A Large Grouping of over 7000 1911-A1's were transfered to the United States Government" The original Serial Numbers were Commercial Numbers, were later changed by the U.S. Government to Military serial Numbers. C prefix of the 1911 (not the A1), Commercial, the first 4500 were of Bright Blue finish (Starting with C-1 and ending # C-138532. From C-4501 to C-138532, were of the Regular Blue Finish. Total Mfg. ran from 1912 until 1925. Checkered Walnut Grips (AKA: STOCKS), does mention Double Diamond.
From My Experience: There was no relief cut behind the trigger on the original 1911, the "Government Model" did not appear until 1946 & on 1911-A1's Commercial Model Slides. Prior to this; the 1911's
Military had "Model of 1911 U.S.Army".
Grips/Stocks should be Walnut, Dark Brown, Oil Finish. Wood Checckered on WWI and Plastic Grips/Stocks on WWII.
If you haven't purchased this Pistol, pass it by. [xx(]
Ronnie G. Perkins0 -
Alright, I want to be correct when I sell this gun and not tick anyone off. I have been schooled by everyone and have learned a great deal..Do I need to take more pictures (or different angles?)..Would you consider the following correct?
Colt Automatic Calibre 45 Government Model Pistol C 119623
Manufactured in 1919
Super Blueing
Walnut Stocks (Grips)
Magazine (Clip) is included but not original to the gun.
95+% Condition
This is similar to the M1911 or M1911A1 but technically a commercial model.0 -
"This is similar to the M1911 or M1911A1 but technically a commercial model."
Not being rude or nothing, just constructive.....technically there is no technially about it, it is or it isn't a commercial Colt Government Model and it is not similar to a 1911-A1. The A1 had many differences. I would just leave this line out and say something like, "This is a Colt Government Model .45acp semi-automatic 1911 type pistol."
I don't think you would make anybody angry if your auction title had 1911 in it, proper title wording is important to get as many hits on your auction as you can. And don't worry, it's a Colt, people will look at the auction reguardless just make sure your description and pictures are accurate and to the point. Probably list any blemishes if any. But I would seriously contact Colt and have them examine the gun before it is sold. If anybody can tell you the specifics of this gun they can. And with a colt letter of authenticity I guarantee the gun will be as valuable to the collectors out there as colt might say it is. Might even make it easier to sell.
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Your life is not my fault.0
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