Loose Primers??
What would account for primers suddenly becoming loose in the pocket.I have had this happen twice,out of a batch of 100, after reloading the bunch five times. They are of the Remington brand.The primers don't fall out,but slide in and out. Have I been to aggessive in cleaning the pockets? Is this a sign of a pressure problem? I don't see any of the signs of which I am familiar. I have of course set the two pieces aside.
Randy Summers
Randy Summers
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Randy, welcome (well, haven't "seen" you before)!
I can't give you a definitive answer here, and I don't know that there is one. I presume you're loading for a rifle? Over multiple loadings, the brass shell casings are work hardened from being fired and re-sized, the primer pockets wear from primers being inserted and removed, the brass itself tends to flow forward, thinning in the body of the case while extending / thickening in the neck. The process is accelerated if the caliber or loads are "hot." The brass itself varies from lot to lot (I surmise you are loading from the same lot to minimize that variable?) and, to a lesser degree, within the lot itself. Cleaning the primer pocket, tumbling after decapping - all of these play some role in this.
My own practice is to monitor the primer seating "feel" very closely. When I detect a primer which seats quite easily, I segregate that round by coloring the head with a permanent marker before continuing the loading process. This is thin enough that it won't interfere with the action but vivid enough to be readily detectable. I load as normal, but use those rounds for fouling shots or less critical roles. It is the last time I load them - off to the scrap dealer.
Sometimes I trash a piece of brass after only one or two loadings, sometimes they last for many . . . "it depends." And I'm not sure it can be predicted.
You don't indicate your practices, but perhaps if you are working up loads / striving for maximum accuracy, you may wish to purchase virgin brass in large quantities of, say, 1000 from the same lot. Then load 100 with your normal methods and determine when you first see these problems occur. Finally, start over with a new group of 100 and load them one less time, setting them aside afterwards for practice ammo after that last trouble free loading (e.g., four times with the lot you are using now).
Your own goals and standards will determine your practice, but I, myself, wouldn't be too concerned. It is the nature of the beast and four plus loadings out of a given batch is far cheaper than an equal number of lots of factory ammo.0 -
Thank you for the explanation! There are SO many variables in this game, I can't keep up! By the way I'm refering to 6mm Rem.reloads.I'm just a couple years into this reloading and just now learning what you have probably forgot! My concern here was safe practice in reloading.If the brass looks "spooky" it gets trashed.I want to be sure I'm not making any mistakes that can damage my head or the rifle.
Randy Summers0 -
Generally,loose primers = high pressure. Measure the diameter of the extractor grooves and compare them with cases having tight primer pockets. In some high pressure experiments using .223 brass in a pressure test gun,I got expanded primer pockets at a measured 65,800psi CUP.
It could be that repeatedly use of hot loads progressively enlarged your pockets to the point of loose primers. Comparative measurements of the case extractor undercuts will tell you if it's a primer pocket wear or an expansion problem.
In any event I would double check my loads as being within recommended limits.0 -
Randy,..my 300RUM has shown me loose pockets after 4 firings of reduced loads!!!!! there are some cases,..that while they will fall within the bell curve of the "lot",..will simply give up faster than others. There is no way you can measure for this from the initial seperation process,...as Teak stated,..it is simply a "feel" thing with your primer tool. Here is another thing,.....are you full length sizing these cases? You could be excessively setting the shoulder back and increasing the case taper,..which over-works the brass and makes it wear out faster,..as well as increases headspace. That alone will place a greater rearward thrust from the primers and they will try to work loose faster. Keep those cases to the exact size of your chamber,..neck size only. I think you said you were neck sizing didn't you?
As Iconoclast stated,..seperate these cases,....and you can even try to load them again,..in case the primer was off sized,..but most of the time,..they are only a firing or two away from being a dummy round. You can keep them to make the dummy for different bullets,..that way you can set your dies to other recipes/seating depths, much faster.[;)] Primer pocket tools,..are pre-set to trim to a certain depth,.and they dont trim the outer edges,...so this is NOT your problem.
I find,..for me,..that the ejector marks are the first signs of pressure,..not primer flattening or sticky bolt lift. The sticky bolt lift,..according to the boys at Sierra,..is the LAST warning that you are pushing the limits of safety. They state that 99% of all guns that a customer told them went "kaboom",..was the shot right after they had to smack the bolt open. "I thought I could shoot her again" is always the next thing they say.
check for those shiny circles on the case head,..or circle indentations. You may have to hold them at different angles under a light to make it out,..as often it will be mixed in with your caliber and manufacturer stampings,..amongst the letters and numbers.
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?0 -
JESHEBA: Welcome to the Forum! There are many Knowledgeable People here, and all are willing to share their Experience and Knowledge.
PRIMER POCKET EXPANSION: I can add little what has already been stated. The feel of the resistance when seating primer, is about the only way to tell if you are wasting your time on a particular Shell.
Using them for Dummy Rounds is a good way to utilize them. (As "JUSTC" Mentioned). Dummy Rounds save a lot of time and keeps Total Overall Length consistent.
I have had occasion when a Particular Brand of Primer was tending to be Undersize or Exact Size. While another Brand was slightly Larger and would suffice for a Generic or Hunting Load.
There are times when a few cases are soft at the Primer Pocket, (seldom is a Military Round, because of the Flame Hardening), Also many Military Rounds have a 3 peened crimp, others have a Roll Crimp, which has to be removed prior to reseating a Primer.
Pressure: I watch for Flatened Primers, Light Ring around the hull, about half way down, Split necks are usually a good sign of overworking the brass, (can be lessened by using "LEE Collet Crimp Dies"). Hole Burned through Primer = Excessive Firing Pin Pressure, Too Fast of a Powder, Excessive Head Space.
I do like the Dummy Rounds,but it is best to have a Box to keep up with what is what, Black marker doesn't hold up well after extensive use.
"Good Shooting" My Friend! [;)]
Ronnie G. Perkins0 -
I agree on the practice of dummy rounds, but one only needs so many bad cases for that! Incidentally, Delta, while marker doesn't last long, nail polish does. If the round is my seating dummy for the 150gr Sierra, it may be marked with blue, the 165gr Speer with red, whatever. Keep a list with the rounds in the die box and away you go. Watch for "90% OFF!!!" type sales at the local pharmacy - the weird nail colors don't sell well and when the store is tired of dusting them, you can pick up all sorts of colors for peanuts. I've also used model paint, but it costs more and doesn't come with a brush in the cap. 0 -
Great Idea "ICON", I'll try that. [:D]
Ronnie G. Perkins0
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