Savage VS. Remington
Im looking at buying a .308 heavy barreled rifle. Remington has the Model 700 VS which is a very good looking rifle. Then savage has the 10FP model Law enforcement editions. I like the remington better, but what is your opinion before i commit to one of these rifles. Thanks
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Look under the post "Black Hills Ammo" of a couple days back. Delta514 may have forgot what he was addressing. Sounds like he's shot both 0 -
hunter223,
Here is a copy of my post from a couple weeks back about my new Savage.
quote:
I just recently bought the Savage 10FP LE1 in .308 with the 20" barrel. Just got the right base for it (takes a new base from Leupold since it has a round top on the rear of the action) on Friday and today was my first time at the range with it. Before going to the range I adjusted the trigger to 3 pounds and my is that accutrigger nice!!!! For the scope I mounted a 6x Springfield Armory (I know, not a great scope but I wanted a simple, rugged outfit since I have the short barrel.) scope with Leupold rings on a one piece base. Here is my range report.
My first 20 rounds were Black Hills Match loaded with 168 gr. Sierra Matchking HPBT. Shot the first four at 50 yards to get the scope roughy sighted in. Wasn't shooting for group size here, just to make the rough adjustments with the scope. Got it where it needed to be and moved out to 100 yards.
100 yards: I shot everything today in 4 shot groups. Shot the remaining 16 rounds from the Black Hills ammo with outstanding results! Remember, these are my first shots with the gun! First group. .7". Second group, 1". Third group, .8". Fourth group, 1.2" (three that would have been around .75 and a flyer). Then I switched to some handloads, this is where the fun began!! I proceeded to shoot two different loads for four more 4 shot groupings.
Handload #1 - 168 gr Sierra Matchking, 45gr of IMR 4350 (starting load)
1st group, .35 (one ragged hole)
2nd group, .65 (3 in a nice hole and a flyer)
Handload #2 - 150 gr Sierra BTSP (Gameking), 46 gr. IMR 4831 (starting load)
1st group, .25 (one ragged hole)
2nd group, 1.2 (3 in a hold that would have measured about .3" and a flyer)
note: measured group size by taking total outside measurements and subtracting the diameter of the bullet.
Okay, I love thisrifle! Incredibly accurate considering it is right out of the box and this is the first time that I have shot it. I am going to get another in .223 with the 24" or 26" barrel. I do have a couple of small issues though. As you can see I had a couple of flyers when shooting groups. I hate to admit it but I developed a small flinch because of the oversized bolt knob. The know on this bolt at least an inch in diameter and is supposed to make it easy to grab when you go to work the action. It is easy to grab but it was banging the heck out of my trigger finger. I actually have a small bruise one the back of my trigger finger between my first and second knuckles (counting from the base of the finger). This isn't enough to not buy the gun and it might not happen to you. I have big hands and will have to work on adjusting my grip so this doesn't happen. My second issue was strictly my fault but I'll share it anyway. When working the bolt the empty will eject before you have completely pulled the bolt to the rear. If you stop pulling the bolt when the empty ejects and push forward you won't pick up a shell from the magazine. Not a big deal and it is completely my fault for not fully cycling the action. I won't make that mistake again! This was actually a good thing because when I clicked on the empty chamber I noticed the flinch I had developed.
All in all I am thrilled with the accuracy of this rifle. The price was great ($450 is what I paid) and it is a shooter straight out of the box. The accutrigger is one of the best things to come down the pipe in years. Adjusting it was a piece of cake. I have never owned a Savage before and bought it after reading the posts on this board. It is my first Savage but definitely won't be my last. Like I say, a .223 10FP is my next rifle purchase. Get it, you can't go wrong!
dusty
"Practice is the best of all instructors."
Publilius Syrus0 -
Savage rifles have been known as "sleepers" for years. I got my first one in 1981. It was a 110 that had come down from Alaska via a military reassignment. It had many years and many rounds on it. To boot, it had been shortened and restocked. It was unbelieveably accurate with handloads and factory ammo. My current is a 110 with a Kevlar stock sporter type, thin tube. It shoots 3 round, one inch groups all day long, with a number of factory and handloads, if you let it cool down. If you try and shoot five round groups , the fourth and fifth rounds open them up a little bit every time. I am sure that a different contour would change that. I have many other more expensive rifles but will never get rid of that Savage. Over the years I have shot perhaps 8 or 10 savages and worked up handloads for more than a few. Each and every one was an out-of-the-box keeper. I shot the Remington 700's while in the military on an MP Special Reaction Team. They were glass bedded and tuned by specialists to be sniper and counter-sniper guns. For a kick I brought my Savage out to the range one day shot right with those Remingtons. The 700's are great guns, great actions. But for the money, the Savage is just as good a gun and for out-of-the-box accuracy, I think better. With the new trigger design you cannot go wrong. Hope my little bit of experience helps.
Waidmannsheil!0 -
I will agree with the fact that the money makes the savage heavy barrleled guns a great value. I have shot both the 700 remingtons,...and the Savage with the accu-trigger. I don't like the feel of the accutrigger (thats simply a personal preference). The floating sear release portion affects my trigger pull as I am used to "feeling" the trigger under my finger and not having to take up what basicaly amounts to "creep" before the break. Again,..this is only my preference and not a caveat to the savage products.
For 25$, the remington 700 trigger can be made VERY light, while still retaining a safety margin. NO,...this is not by the instructions available on the internet for adjusting the trigger,..the internal surfaces must be worked by a competent gunsmith to get them this crisp and light.
I feel the machining and finish to be superior on the 700's,..which is a fair portion of the extra cost. I also feel that that the 700 is still the premier factory produced action for building benchrest quality shooters (other than custom actions). This again does not mean that the savage is not a great action,, Varmit Hunter has one that is super accurate!! This is again my opinion.
The barrel is equally heavy on both brands,..which makes a big difference in harmonics and resulting group size. The hammer forged barrels on the remingtons SHOULD shoot to less a degree of accuracy due to having increased stress from the forging process, when compared to the "button" rifled savage barrels. I have however not found this to be the case,...both are one-hole rifles when the shooter does his/her part.
In the end,..it is all in what you want to own. I like the feel of the 700 action and the fact that ALL competent gunsmiths are capable of making them capable of winning benchrest matches. I pay more for them,,,but they sell for more if you get rid of them,,so there is really no difference other than having more money tied up for a while. You need to handle both rifles,...and shoot one of each if possible,....then make a decision as to which is right for YOU.
good luck,...you will be happy reguardless of your choice.
why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?0 -
It's hard to pass on that BDL,IMHO I would choose the Remington.But the Savage is also an excellant gun.I have one a Model 11F,its a great gun chambered for the .308 and has a very nice finish and is attractive to look at.
Good Luck!!
Rugster
Toujours Pret0 -
I was a Dyed in the Wool Remington Man. But the absolute easiest for me to Shoot 5/8 groups (out of the Box) Savage 12 VBSF I think I got that right? Heavy, Stainless, Fluted?
The Best route to the Cheap end = Savage LE, then drop that Puppy into a Choate Stock, If you want a Great Trigger= Go to Brownells and order the Sharpshooter trigger, (easy to install, Savage used these MOM - POP Triggers on their ".308 Sharpshooter Rifle, It also had a Choate stock).
I can shoot the Remington, Sendero, or the PSS, in .308, and get 5/8 groups at 200yds consistant. But The Savage does it with less consentration on my part.
The way Home = 168 Molycoated Sierra Match King, 41 grains of IMR 3031, Remington 9.1/2 Primers or Federal 210 Primers. Load slightly off the Lands and Hammer Down.
Neither Rifle is a Slouch, Savage is Comming on Strong, don't rule them out.
"Good Shooting My Friend" [;)]
Ronnie G. Perkins0 -
Had the 110FP in .308, best buy i ever made. Was forced to sell at one point and really wish i wouldnt have had to. Shot MOA with crappy military ball ammo, shot 1/2-3/4 inch with match stuff. (This was with the original crappy trigger and stock). Have a Remington PSS now. Basically just as accurate as the Savage and has nicer trigger and stock, but cost me a heck of alot more.
Either way yor gonna have a fine rifle, but if you get the savage i would recomend getting it put in a Mcmillan stock, or better yet, buy the model that comes with the Mcmillan already! Good luck!0
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