Ammo Sales Legal or Not?
I have a buyer which will not send proof of age nor sign a statement saying it is legal for him to buy Ammo.
He paid via PayPal. He filed with PayPal wanting his money back if not shipped within 7 days of filing. He will not send proof of age.
I assume it is illegal to ship. PayPal says if I do not ship within 7 days of auction end they not only send money back but restrict my usage of PayPal.
He says he buys ammo on this site all the time without proof of age.
Is this true on this site?
If he is 15, a gang banger and kills someone with Gunbroker ammo, can Gunbroker as well as sellers be sued.
Not only would I feel terrible but families also.
I filed on Gunbroker about a seller selling Teflon coated ammo that is armor piercing to boot. I asked seller repeatedly if the ammo was grandfathered in and thus legal with no answer. He posted Neg feedback and Gunbroker never replied as to the illegality of this ammo and if a seller can post *&9) on you and get away with it. No reply from Gunbroker.
WHAT IS LEGAL on this site? What is not? Or anything goes as long as you are not caught?
This is not a complaint but a serious inquiry and I would appreciate only honest and sincere answers.
Johanna[?]
Thank you,
Joe
He paid via PayPal. He filed with PayPal wanting his money back if not shipped within 7 days of filing. He will not send proof of age.
I assume it is illegal to ship. PayPal says if I do not ship within 7 days of auction end they not only send money back but restrict my usage of PayPal.
He says he buys ammo on this site all the time without proof of age.
Is this true on this site?
If he is 15, a gang banger and kills someone with Gunbroker ammo, can Gunbroker as well as sellers be sued.
Not only would I feel terrible but families also.
I filed on Gunbroker about a seller selling Teflon coated ammo that is armor piercing to boot. I asked seller repeatedly if the ammo was grandfathered in and thus legal with no answer. He posted Neg feedback and Gunbroker never replied as to the illegality of this ammo and if a seller can post *&9) on you and get away with it. No reply from Gunbroker.
WHAT IS LEGAL on this site? What is not? Or anything goes as long as you are not caught?
This is not a complaint but a serious inquiry and I would appreciate only honest and sincere answers.
Johanna[?]
Thank you,
Joe
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A couple of issues here. First teflon coated ammo does not automatically mean armor piercing unless the projectile meets the definition of armor piercing due to its constuction and is intended for handguns (you can own rifle caliber armor piercing ammo). Also the Grandfather clause on AP handgun ammo allows you to OWN what you already have but you cannot RESELL it to the public. Chances are the seller of this teflon ammo is just talking up his product. In order to actually sell armor piercing HANDGUN ammunition you need a $3000 TYPE 09 FFL as a dealer in destructive devices.
As to your ID problem. Do not ship the ammo without a copy of the mans drivers license, State ID, FFL (a C&R is fine) or some other identification which establishes his age and the certification that the ammo is legal where he wants it shipped. If he is buying ammo all over the net without ID that is not your concern. What does concern you is that you stay within the law. Contact PAYPAL and just tell them that the buyer wants you to violate the law and you will not do this. From what I've been hearing these PAYPAL people have become rather unfriendly towards firearms and firearms merchandise sales so they should understand this.
Mark T. Christian0 -
You can go to your Paypal account and simply refund the money. Not send him an amount but, refund. See the site map. Now he will have no ammo and no bitch. Paypal will stay off your back. Now that eBay owns them they are jerks and I no longer accept Paypal payments for anything. I would not send anything if he can't comply with simple request.
Now I have a question about this ammo stuff. Are you in the employ of the Justice Departemt or the Treasury Department? Are you being paid to check for contraband weapons or munitions? I have folks that walk into my shop on occasion with automatic weapons. Is it my job to turn them it? I an not an officer of the court or a paid informant. Other than asking them to remove from the premises said items, my concern with their questionable article stops. I know of no law requiring me to do otherwise. I do not believe we need to become our brothers keeper when what they're doing concerns us not. Nor am I required to become like some Communist or Nazi neighborhood snitch. Happy Fourth of July everyone! Had to vent a little about FREEDOM and lack thereof. In the old days, you had to commit an overt act that was bad to get into trouble. Now it seems if you think about it and have the means available, you are already guilty of a crime.
<P>0 -
To add to this question: Sending someone a copy of your drivers license is a great way to have your identity stolen, and I will no do it. Cabela's just asks me to verify that I am over 18 and that is all. That may or may not be prudent, but they seem to be making it work.
My heros have always killed cowboys.0 -
REFUND THE MAN'S MONEY....KEEP YOUR AMMO...AND GET ON WITH LIFE...COVER YOUR BUTT AND STAY OUT OF THE HOOSEGOW...IF PAYPAL DON'T LIKE IT....TOUGH...!........
Captain Kirk, Tech Staff0 -
(A) Under the "reforms" which have gone into effect since eBarf bought out PayPal, they will close / freeze your account if you dare use their services for a transaction having anything to do with live ammo, C&R weapons, high capactity mags, or virtually anything else which is an otherwise legal commodity in interstate commerce but associated with firearms. So, using PayPri*k for this purpose gets you into a private hassle at the very least.
(B) Under Federal law, ammo sales are restricted to those 18 plus, 21 plus for handgun ammo. Then there are the additional restrictions under the various state laws / municipal regulations which must be observed. Technically, shipping ammo across state lines in violation of the local statutes puts you in violation of Federal law as well.
I sell a lot of collector ammo: duplicates, accumulated junk, specimens from my personal collection which no longer interest me. I absolutely refuse to sell round one in the absence of a proof of age and a signed eligibility statement. That requirement is part of every auction listing I post. I just recently had the same situation with a party in Kentucky. He insisted in using PayP***k and absolutely refuse to provide the paperwork. I spoke with him on the phone and he clearly was no child, but I refunded his money. Some day, the functionaries of government will start hassling small / amateur dealers (not Cabela's which has an army of attorneys available to resist this silly harassment) over Internet ammo sales. I don't intend to be the one in the barrel when that happens. I would note additionally that a member of this forum forwarded me the details of a case involving a legal sale of ammo to the People's Socialist Republik of Kennedy in which the AG of said wasteland seeks to impose a $5K fine on a party who sold ammo to a resident who was entirely legal, but did not secure a copy of the FOID required by the stupid laws of that Facist state.
Bottom line: refund the money and tell the buyer to stuff it where the sun don't shine. Could be a government sting, could be something illegal, could be someone who, like He Dog, doesn't wish to abide by your conditions of sale for any number of reasons. Doesn't matter - CYA.0 -
"...not send proof of age nor sign a statement..." If your State says you need it send him his money back. CYA is your friend. 0 -
Yeah just refund him, In states like mine, MA it is illegal to send ammo by getting a copy of a drivers license! you need to get a copy of the persons FID or CCP to sell.
Everybody who owns weapons has to be registered, and you need a copy of that registration to sell.
Most dealers don't wan't the hassle, I can't blame them. (good thing my FFL sells me ammo at case price!)
Other states like MD have similar laws, so be CAREFUL!
NO ID NO AMMO, put that in your auction next time and good luck!
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun has!0 -
Refund the mans money and walk away is my opinion, i know of companies that will not ship to me even if i show proper id by mail ( gotta love il. laws). I question the mans motives if he doesnt want to show he is who he is, when i first read this post the first thing that came to mind is (a) what is his motives if he is not giving proprer documentation (b) is he legal to buy or own if he has a problem. 0 -
I read the postings, I read the Replys: Being a Gun Owner in this country is like walking a Razors Edge. [V]
Ronnie G. Perkins0 -
I wouldn't be surprised if the purchaser wasn't a ATF agent trying to see if you would sell with out verifying the age.
Take everyone's advice, refund.0 -
I said it once...I'll say it again....Refund Him His Money...Cover Your Butt....!
Captain Kirk, Tech Staff0
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