AR15 Legal
I was looking at buying an AR15. I was told it was a preban. I contacted the manufacturer. They told me it was sold 9-7-94 as a lower not a completed rifle and need to be completed as a rifle by 9-13-94 to be preban. Now my question. How is anyone ever going to be able to tell it this was built into a completed gun by 9-13-94. So is this a legal preban or just a post ban that almost made it in time. It have a pre-ban upper ,but I'm now not sure if it legal. And if not considered a preban don't want to pay the price the guy wants. THANKS
0
-
You bet the gun can be distiquished if pre-ban. Serial numbers of the manufacturer are in a federal database. 0 -
Just as selectfire mentions each manufacturer must provide the date of manufacture for any firearm they produce (generally when the receiver is serialized) and what type of firearm it is: Rifle, pistol, shotgun, ect. In your case this would be listed as a RECEIVER ONLY and not completed into any partictular type of firearm. So lets look at the numbers: The AR-15 receiver was produced by Colt (the only makers of AR-15's as all other AR type manufacturers MUST use a different model designation due to trademark laws) and then sold on September 7, no doubt to a wholesaler (Colt does not sell dealer direct). The entire time between the date the receiver was shipped and the cut off for the Crime Bill is 6 days! Can you prove that the receiver was shipped by Colt to a wholsaler, who then sold it to a dealer, who then had just enough time to assemble it into a pre ban rifle...all in SIX days? It probably took 6 days just to get the receiver shipped from Colt to the Wholesaler...its first stop.
When the Crime Bill first went into effect people mistakenly thought that they could assemble a "pre ban" receiver into an assault weapon at any time after purchase. They were mistaken! Assembling a receiver into a pre ban configuartion after September 13, 1994 is manufacturing a new assault weapon which did not exist prior to the Crime Bill. LOTS of people spent big money on pre ban receivers only to discover that they could only be assembled into post ban rifles. LOTS of dealers scored some big cash moving these "pre ban/post ban only" receivers to people who did not understand the law. LOTS of these folks would like to get their money back too! Your receiver sounds like one of these. I'd leave it alone unless you can be provided with solid proof that it was assembled into a pre ban rifle with in the 6 available days after the receiver was produced.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Mark, If you had an "pre-Ban" receiver, and had to make it into a "Post-Ban" gun by law... Did not all the Colt Post-Ban AR's need to have a solid blocked and not the (pined) receiver? That would make it impossible to make it into a Post-Ban AR?
It will hurt you, More than it will hurt me..
Life Member... N R A
American Legion, MECU, MWCA, SMSC, BSC, NASDS
Thanks for all the help!0 -
I would mention there is one other interesting "catch" to this law. The receiver didn't actually have to be built into a completed gun by September 13th. Being together with a preban "kit" would be enough to qualify it as a preban rifle. The ATF ruled that having all the preban parts necessary to complete the firearm, plus the receiver, prior to the September 13th was enough to qualify the firearm as a preban weapon. The firearm istelf didn't have to be completed, but the necessary parts had to be on hand to complete it. A receiver such as this, if it was in the proximity of a "kit" sufficient to complete it in preban configuration, would still qualify as a preban rifle even if those parts were not added until after tha ban. However, if it was owned by a dealer (or individual) who had the parts, but did not sell the parts with the receiver (the receiver was sold as an individual unit) then the receiver is post-ban.
Now the question is, did the entity who purchased the receiver from Colt have enough parts on hand to build it up as a preban rifle, use those parts to do that at some point in the past? If the answer to that is yes, then it is still a preban rifle, even if it wasn't actually assembled until months after the ban.
However, if it was purchased by a dealer who had no intention of ever completing it as a rifle, and intended to sell it as a bare receiver (and did just that), it is a post ban receiver.
This may be all unbelieveable. It is certainly rediculous, and who knows if it can be proved? I know there are those who would question this summary, and the logic therein. For those who do, I submit the following site, look at the last three or four paragraphs to confirm what I am saying.
http://www.ak-47.net/legal/preban.html
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
Boeboe makes a good point about having the receiver and the "kit" together at the time the ban went into effect. If this could be demonstrated as fact then it would be legal. Technically anything ACTUALLY marked AR-15 is a named assault weapon and is preban regaurdless and can be modified any way that you wish. Since this receiver was made in 1994 and Colt discontinued AR-15 sales to the public in 1989, this is not a true AR-15 but would instead be a Colt "Sporter". Post ban Colts were renamed "Match Targets" and the flash hidders were eliminated.
It go bang. The block which you mention was installed in the new Colt Sporters and AR-15 restricted rifles when Colt reintroduced the AR-15 rifles to the market in 1990. I own several AR-15 LEO restricted sales samples and all have the block. This was a Colt internal policy decission and was pre dated the Crime Bill by four years. It is not a mandate under any law-- it was simply Colt trying to be PC. Later the Colt rifles were redisigned to eliminate the block by leaving a portion of the lower receiver "un cut". The idea was to prevent the installation of a so called Drop in Autosear or the drilling of the lower for the GI auto sear. Many bare Colt receivers did not have the blocks installed but the pre ban/post ban issue does not apply to this.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Mark, What other makers of the AR15 (type) Post-Ban, Did not have a block? When the ban started, I thought that all AR (type) guns had to have the block?
It will hurt you, More than it will hurt me..
Life Member... N R A
American Legion, MECU, MWCA, SMSC, BSC, NASDS
Thanks for all the help!0 -
ItGoBang, the block in the lower receiver was used strictly by Colt. Bushmaster, Armalite, Olympic Arms, ect. never used blocked lowers. The decision by Colt to do this was not overly popular among their customers since the block meant the rifle used a modified bolt assemby which had the entire rear of the carrier removed so that it would not interfer with the block. Installing a chromed or match grade carrier "out of the box" in a blocked rifle is difficult. The block also made it much more difficult to install things like match triggers. If I reall our esteemed GB member JudgeColt was so upset by the blocks that he abandoned Colt and switched to Armalite! There is nothing to prohibit the owner of a Colt Sporter from removing the block if he chooses to do so as neither its presence or the lack of has no bearing on the receivers status as an assault weapon, pre or post ban.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Thanks Mark.. I was not trying to be a smart ass, But we started talking about this as were were reading your post. Just had never thought about it before, and I dont have any Post Band AR's, So I could not look. AND could not find anything online about them. Thanks again for all your INFO! [:I]
It will hurt you, More than it will hurt me..
Life Member... N R A
American Legion, MECU, MWCA, SMSC, BSC, NASDS
Thanks for all the help!0 -
Thanks everyone. I guess I will let this one pass, seems to shaky. It's a good deal for a preban but way over price for a postban. 0 -
Maybe it's just as well that you pass on this one. A pre-ban "parts gun" is worth LESS, not MORE, than an "as manufactured" post-ban gun. It will have value ONLY as a "shooter".
Remember, there is nothing intrinsically valuable about a flash hider and a bayonet lug. Folks pay higher dollars for "as manufactured" pre-ban guns because they are COLLECTIBLE, and they aren't making any more; in many cases, people buy them just to have something that the US Congress has decided is too evil for us to own. But, once you start swapping parts, all you have is a Mixed Parts Mongrel, which may shoot OK, but which will have no collectibility.
Now, I'm sure that many of you know someone who paid $1,500 for a pre-ban Mixed Parts Mongrel, and already has had offers to buy at a profit. Yes, there are always folks who overpay, but, in time, the marketplace will wipe out these perceived profits.
Neal0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
10 comments