Reloading .38-56 using .re-sized .45-70 brass?

taperloc

June 08, 2003 21:49

My problem is that the re-sized .45-70 brass has an inside neck dia. of only .364 and I'm loading a bullet that is .379. I shaved some lead. Also the case thickness at the neck is .016. Seems a bit thick. I also load for .38-55 and plan to use the same bullet. I have some new un-fired .38-55's and they also measure .364, but the case is only .011 thick. I checked some fired .38-55's and they measure .374 dia. I have never loaded any new .38-55 cases, so I have never had a problem. I have experimented with the resized .45-70 cases. I placed the empty on top of the shell holder and sized the neck a full 3/8" higher in the sizing die. No difference, still .364. I'm sure it will be O.K. after the case has been fired, but it seems as if I should have some kind of neck expander or a reamer the first time. Has anyone had any experience along this line? I don't think it will chamber with these dimensions. I think the neck will be too thick.

Thank you,
Taperloc

Added info: This is an old 1886 Win. Slugged the bore; .379"
Thank you for your help.

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  Iconoclast

  June 09, 2003 05:25

  taperloc, when I had a custom loading business some 20+ years ago, I loaded a bunch of .38-56 (and several other calibers) using virgin .45-70 brass for the raw material. I did ream the necks. Lyman used to sell (may still and others may as well) a die body and individual plugs one could use to create a custom neck bell as the intermediate step in loading cases of any configuration. I don't recall, but likely I did such a step. This would be far more important in loading a lead bullet than a jacketed one. I do agree on the choice of a .379" sized lead slug since the original .38-55 and .38-56 used a .377" jacketed bullet and IME the time honored rule of thumb of using a projectile roughly .002" overbore for lead bullets works quite well. If you have newer weapons, you should, however, slug the barrels to be sure.
  
  As I see it, your concern should not be so much if the round chambers but if it *does!!* This might drastically increase chamber pressures upon firing. Too many possible variables here to give a definitive answer, but I've always advocated taking all possible precautions in such an enterprise.
  
  Good Luck!

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  brayhaven

  June 09, 2003 05:43

  I'm sure you've slugged the barrel so you're using the right bullet. It may be as simple as buying or making a correct dia. expander nipple to properly size the neck on the way out of the sizer die.

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  blackpowdermax

  June 10, 2003 16:30

  taperloc....I shoot a number of old calibers in old rifles and most have a situation similar to yours, a bore that is oversize for the bullet diameters of the period (i.e., .409" bore and period bullets were .403". If you use "modern" rules and try to use a bullet .001" over bore, it will expand the case to a size that will not chamber. My .410" bullet in a 40-85 Ballard will not chamber with original Everlasting cases that have a thicker sidewall. Using modern cases with thinner sidewalls allows me to squeak it in. I use paper patched bullets with the original cases and they work fine. I also find that a smaller diameter bullet cast 30:1 will "bump up" with the black powder explosion and grab the rifling. Works fine and I believe this is what happened in the "old days".
  
  For info, I use Winchester cases headstamped W-W for loading 45-70's and the wall thickness is .010". They may solve your problem with chamber size, but you will still need an expander to seat the bullet properly. Anything over .002" is too much "squeeze" on a soft cast bullet.
  
  Hope this helps....
  
  max
  
  load the old ones with the old tools.....

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