8mm=8x57?
Is 8mm Mauser and 8x57 the same thing? I was told it was but I'm still skeptical. I bought some Sellier and Bellot that was labeled 8x57 JS to shoot in a Yugo Mauser. What is the JS designation? Is it safe to shoot in this gun?
-Marcus
***When the Second Amendment falls, the First will be sure to follow.***
-Marcus
***When the Second Amendment falls, the First will be sure to follow.***
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The "JS" suffix on your box of Sellier & Bellot ammo, denotes that the projectiles are .323 in diameter.
This is the commercial designation for the standard 8 x 57 military ammo, which your Yugo Mauser is chambered for.
It SHOULD? be perfectly safe to fire. Since what you have is a used/abused? 50 year old military rifle, it might be prudent to take it to a "Qualified" gunsmith for a headspace check and test fireing.0 -
Ditto what everybody's said so far. The 8x57-->8x57JS-->8mm Mauser--)7.92 Mauser-->7.92x57. All the same stuff. The smaller bore stuff was for the 1888 "Commission" rifle and is very rarely encountered as Saxon noted. The other common variation is the 8x57JRS which is a rimmed version of the cartridge, the guns are rarely encountered, but sometimes the ammo is. Good luck.
Love them Beavers
SUPPORT THE I.N.S. , THE COUNTRY THEY SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN0 -
What has been posted is correct but doesn't tell the whole story. The S is the designation for the .323 bore. The J is the designation for the .318 bore. The JS means it it can be fired in either. If you mike the bullets I believe you will find the diameter is a little smaller than .323 so it will swage down and go through the .318 bore but will be fairly accurate through the .323 bore. Many of the drillings and combination guns that used the rimmed version of the 8mm will have the J bore. I believe the Treaty of Versailles prohibited the Germans from making a rifle chambered for the military 8mm so they made some 8X57 .318 commercial Mausers. Same applies to the Lugers. They were prohibited from making a 9mm pistol so many WWI era Lugers were rebarreled to .30 Luger to be exported and sold in the US. 0 -
The "J" stands for infantry the "S" stands for spitzer, meaning a sharp point. In this case, a 154 grain sharp pointed bullet of .232 diameter. It has nothing to do with "swageing" bullets down to another diameter. It is dangerous to fire 8X57 JS cartridges in a rifle ment for 8X57 J, not only because of the larger diameter bullet, but also because the 8X57 JS is loaded to higher pressure. Know what cartridge your rifle takes and use the proper one. 0 -
Iroquois Scout, I stand corrected on the 8X57JS being an intermediate size bullet for use in either size bore. I will stand by my position that the letters "J" and "S" indicate a bore diameter. That is stated on pages 49 and 253 of CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD by Frank C. Barnes, on page 280 of NRA FIREARMS FACT BOOK, Third Edition and on page 76 of OUTDOOR LIFE GUN DATA BOOK by F. Philip Rice. I have read that the 8X57 cartridge loaded by cartridge companies in the USA is underloaded and is an intermediate sized bullet to prevent disaster if it is fired in one of the 8X57 J bore rifles. I still believe this is true but can't find documentation to cite you. I will concur in the warning that cartridges marked 8X57JS should not be fired in "J" (.318 dia.) bore rifles. I have a friend who has a commercial model 98 Mauser that has the J bore. They are unusual but are around. 0 -
I recall reading somewhere that the .318" vs. .323" issue only matters if the rifle in question is of vintage 1910 or earlier. So saying, if you've latched onto one of the many, MANY fine Yugo 48 Mausers, or a German WWII-vintage 98K, don't sweat it. Does it hurt to double-check? Not at all. But if you've got a 48 Yugo, fuhgeddaboutit, as Tony Soprano would say. Not to worry. 0 -
The German letter I looks to English speaking people as a J. When the Commission rifle was adopted in 1888 it was called Rifle, Infantry, Model of 1888. This was abbreviated to Mdl. 1888 J. This rifle used a cartridge with a 216 grain round nose bullet of 7.92MM (.318 diameter) and a cartridge case 57MM long. This cartridge is known, in this country, as the 8X57 J. When the Mauser rifle was adopted in 1898 this cartridge was still in use, however, in 1905 the German Army adopted a sharp pointed 154 grain bullet (the Spitzer bullet), in order to provide a better grip by the rifleing on a bullet with a shorter bearing surface the grooves of the barrel were deepened to .323 and the diameter of the bullet was also increased to .323. The cartridge was now known as Cartridge 8X57 Mdl. 1905 (Spitzer) for Rifle Mdl.1898 Infantry. This was all abbreviated as 8X57 JS. So, you can see that the letters J and S stand for the branch of the service for which the rifle was originally designed and the shape of the bullet, not the diameter of that bullet. Now, in fact, we know that the Model 1888 uses the .318 diameter bullet and the Model 1898 uses the .323 diameter bullet, but that is not the meaning of the letters J and S.
You are correct that many civilian gunsmiths continued to use the .318 diameter bore and many are still in service, which means that sporting armes should have their bores slugged to determine the proper bullet to use.
The Treaty of Versailles did not pohibit the manufacture of rifles of .323 bore as long as they were for the standing 100,000 man army.
A few P08 Luger pistols in 9MM were rebarreled to .30 Luger, but, most caliber .30 Luger's were originally made as such. The 9MM Lugers still in service, were issued to military and police units. Most of these pistols will have the date 1920 stamped over the chamber and unit markings on the front strap.0 -
Upon closer inspection of the box it says 'Only for barrels with S-caliber bore 7,89 mm, groove 8,20 mm'. Would this be the .318 or .323 bore?
-Marcus
***When the Second Amendment falls, the First will be sure to follow.***0 -
Sir, as "Iroquois Scout" & "Herschel" have previously pointed out to you, the bullet designated as the "S" bullet is .323 in diameter.
You can do the math, Groove Diameter is 8.20 mm. Multiplied by .3937 Thousands, this works out to .3228 Thousands.0 -
Maybe it would be easier if you bought a 30-06?
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