Loading BP shotshells for Damascus barrels
Hello "brayhaven"[:)]
The "captain" has 'locked' the Damascus barreled shotgun topic, actually he gave us a little slack and allowed 13 posts.
So I have to start a new thread to answer your question.
Why the recommendation of "Swiss" and "Elephant" black powder for loading shotshells for Damascus barreled shotguns?????
In realty circles it is "location,location,location" .... in shotguns it is "pattern,pattern,pattern".
Since I am a traditionalist and use Damascus barreled shotguns for some but NOT all hunting activities, I load shotshells using cut wads and roll-crimped. As an aside tangent, I use 'stryowads' cut from stryofoam meat trays using turn of the last century wad cutters. Old waxed wads such as Alcan are virtually worthless for shotshell reloading as they blow into the back of the shot charge and distort the pattern. They are OK for some slug loadings, but little else.
I need the most uniform pattern and also the most consistantly uniform patterns that I can get. You can have an absolutely uniform pattern on one shell and not get it again in the next 100 shells. I need uniform patterns and I need it again and again.
I find that in my shotguns that my best patterns are with "Swiss" and "Elephant" black powder. "Goex" and some others simply do not make the cut.
It is my hope that this will explain to you why I prefer these powders.
Best Regards[:)]
The "captain" has 'locked' the Damascus barreled shotgun topic, actually he gave us a little slack and allowed 13 posts.
So I have to start a new thread to answer your question.
Why the recommendation of "Swiss" and "Elephant" black powder for loading shotshells for Damascus barreled shotguns?????
In realty circles it is "location,location,location" .... in shotguns it is "pattern,pattern,pattern".
Since I am a traditionalist and use Damascus barreled shotguns for some but NOT all hunting activities, I load shotshells using cut wads and roll-crimped. As an aside tangent, I use 'stryowads' cut from stryofoam meat trays using turn of the last century wad cutters. Old waxed wads such as Alcan are virtually worthless for shotshell reloading as they blow into the back of the shot charge and distort the pattern. They are OK for some slug loadings, but little else.
I need the most uniform pattern and also the most consistantly uniform patterns that I can get. You can have an absolutely uniform pattern on one shell and not get it again in the next 100 shells. I need uniform patterns and I need it again and again.
I find that in my shotguns that my best patterns are with "Swiss" and "Elephant" black powder. "Goex" and some others simply do not make the cut.
It is my hope that this will explain to you why I prefer these powders.
Best Regards[:)]
0
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Hope your insurance is paid up. Damascus barrels are NOT safe to shoot. Even a little. Sooner or later one of 'em will blow. 0 -
Not true. Damascus barrels were shot for many years, and true Damascus was considered superior to the fluid steel of the day. There is nothing wrong with shooting Damascus-barrelled guns as long as the shells are loaded correctly.
FFL Dealer, Class 07/02 Mfg0 -
As Country Gunsmith states TRUE demascus barrels are safe to shoot.
However you must keep in mind condition,As with shotgun. As long as shells are loaded properly there is no problem. You would'nt rechamber a .22 bolt action for .300 mag, therefore you don't expect these guns to handle the same sort of over-pressures. As long as shells are loaded at proper charge and shot wieghts AND the barrels are in good condition, they will shoot as well as any modern shotgun with standard smokeless loads. There is, as a side note and I will try to locate it, a load convertion table for black powder to selected smokeless powder loads. It was produced by Hodgedon some years back. They did a great deal of research to develope them in various barrels to keep pressure and volocity in line with the original black powder loadings. They work well in these old guns, no problem from any I tried. Have'nt used it in years,but I will see if I can locate it for those interested in these loads.0 -
AdamsQuailHunter also has the damascas barrels he uses gone over by an expert gunsmith with fiberoptics on a yearly basis. He is no fool. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by AdamsQuailHunter
Hello "brayhaven"[:)]
I find that in my shotguns that my best patterns are with "Swiss" and "Elephant" black powder. "Goex" and some others simply do not make the cut.
It is my hope that this will explain to you why I prefer these powders.
Best Regards[:)]
Thanks AQH, Thats a mighty good reason. I find swiss to be the best powder I've ever used, but I have to back way off it to get the same pressures & velocities over dupont, elephant, Wano etc. I built a 40 cal barrel for my contender carbine with a stainless slip in breech plug and 2 o-rings. I "proofed" it with 80 grains of Wano & 2 balls. No bypass whatever. My first load with 45 gr of Swiss & 1 rd ball blew past the first O-ring. I've also seen it cause creep around the threads of a well fitted breech plug. Curious as to the loads you use in shot shells. 20 ga? Thanks for your info.
Greg Sefton0 -
An interesting link for those reading this thread.
http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html
Woods0 -
Personally, I wouldn't shoot a damascus barrel gun. The way the metal was forge-welded it rusts from the inside out. There are voids inside the metal (growing larger with time) where you can't see them from the surface. One day the barrel will blow--no doubt about it. I wouldn't want to be the one holding it when it goes.
The same with old chemical and gas vessels. I worked in R&D for a company that had hundreds of old vessels around the country. Many were huge, weighing many tons. Ever once in a while, one would unexpectedly explode. Pieces of shrapnel the size of a table top would tavel for over a mile. Analysis of the peices revealed the metal was rusting on the inside of the welds--just like demascus steel. The surfaces of the vessels looked perfect.
Bottom line: A gunsmith can look at it, and look down the barrel. The barrel may look good on the surface. What he can't see are the voids internal to the steel.
If you go ahead and shoot the gun, listen to Sunray--make sure your insurance is paid up.
My humble and respectful opinion,
Rafter-S
"What is truth? No wonder jesting Pilate turned away. The truth, it has a thousand faces -- show only one of them, and the whole truth flies away! But how to show the whole? That is the question."
--Thomas Wolfe, "You Can't Go Home Again" (1934)0 -
Unfortunately, not all Damascus barrels were created equal.
For every Parker, Fox, or L.C. Smith, there were thousands of "Hardware Store" or "Mail Order House" cheapies sold....many of them of dubious quality when new, and they surely haven't improved over time.
For anybody considering firing a Damascus barreled gun, take it a gunsmith that specializes in examining Damascus barrels.
Any gunsmith can tell you if the action is tight, but those who know how to properly examine laminated or twist steel barrels are few and far between.
When it doubt, hang it on the wall.0
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