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What Kind of Scopes Were These? (Movie)

trstone
I've been watching "Enemy At The Gates"---several times, since it's become one of my favorites---and I've been wondering:

(A) What kind of scope did Zaitzev (Sayetzev?) have on that 91 Mosin-
Nagant of his? I've seen a rifle/scope combo just like that one
at a gun store---even looked through it---and wondered what you
call that strange sighting-configuration using the two horizontal
lines with the funny vertical upward-pointing line in the middle.
And am I right in thinking those were fixed-power scopes?

(B) What kind of scope did Major Koenig have on that 98K Mauser? I'm
guessing a Zeiss, but am guessing on the basis of name only.
(German rifle, German scope?) Was Koenig's scope also fixed-power
too? And what would be the purpose of those three short little
transverse marks on the crosshairs, one on the lefthand side of
the horizontal, one on the righthand side of the horizontal, and
the third below the center on the vertical? Was that some sort of
range-finding deal?
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Comments

7 comments

Date Votes
  • mark christian
    The scope for the Nagant rifle (I never saw this motion picture) would most likely be the PU telescopic sight. I have an unissued example still in the wrap which I brought back from Bulgaria many years ago. This is a 3.5 fixed power scope and has the typical horizontal line with post reticle. The scope is attached to the rifle by use of a two piece mount. The base is attched the the rifle's receiver and the scope mount is held in place with a sort of ball and socket and then the entire unit is tightend with a large thumb screw. The scope itself is held onto the mount by two split rings which are secured by three screws- two in the rear ring and one in the forward ring. The entire set up weighs in at 1-1/2 lbs. This is not a sophisticated scope, the reticle itself moves when you make adjustments rather than staying centered in the lens. It is effective enough however and remained in Soviet service for many years and was quite common in their client states. My example has a serial number of over 4 million, but that number probably means very little.

    The study of German sniper rifles is a field best left to true experts. I do know that the Germans used optics from Zeiss, Leitz, Hendsolt, and others during the war. The typical scope was the fixed 4 power Zf.39 which was generally secured on the rifle with seperate turret mounts on the receiver bridge and over the chamber. There were also a number of one piece mounts, including swept back types, which clamped onto a rail on the side of the receiver.

    Mark T. Christian
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  • mrmike08075
    MARK CHRISTIAN, let me ad a little information.

    the first MOSIN NAGANT scopes were made in a factory originaly equipped by CARL ZIESS of JENA.
    iron battle sights were retained on these guns.

    CHEAPER THAN DIRT is selling modern production PU scopes. made in the original factory set up by ZIESS in BELARUS. they feature a duplex reticle, 3.5x17.5, and come with lens caps, sunshade, and carrying case. price is $180.00 plus shipping.

    i have fired MN`s with all 3 original variants. i have also fired the later semiautomatic TOKEROV sniper rifle. the scopes were all well designed, but oddly heavy. the first two models were difficult to adjust while remaining in a firing position. they are not the equal of german, american, or british optics, but well built, sturdy, and good enough to do the job. best regards, mike.


    What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
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  • p3skyking
    The German scope was in what is called a high turret mount. I have a Ajack scope on a 1944 Mauser K98k (looks exactly like the movie rifle), however closer examination would be required to actually atribute the scope to a particular maker as externally they follow a set pattern.

    <P>
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  • mark christian
    Very interesting information Mike. The Soviets once produced a sporting rifle for use by their hunters (if you were an elite party member you could persue hunting and the shooting sports) based on a sporterized (in a non military caliber- 9mm X 54R) version of the Dragonov Rifle. It was called the Medved (bear) and although I have seen these in Eastern Europe, examples in the United States are virtually unknown. This sporting rifle used a near identicle copy of the PU scope with a nickled finish and a Saiga type mount. I will guess now that these Medved scopes were being produced in that factory in Belarus.

    Mark T. Christian
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  • Sunray
    It's not a bad movie, mark. Fiction but not a bad movie. Forget about history though. As in any movie, what you see in it is not reality.
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  • redcedars
    Hi tr and welcome to the boards.

    Good info above. The marks are aids to range-finding and to sighting. They give a known offset at a known distance, and are often in a military scope measured in mils. There are 360 degrees in a circle, there are 6400 mils. The handy thing about mils for range finding purposes is that an object one foot high has an apparent size of one mil at 1000 yards. So, if its real size is one yard and its apparent size is 5 mils, the range is 1,000 divided by 5, or 200 yards. This system is often seen in military binoculars. Its ease of use is a real plus.

    redcedars
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  • buckdeer
    the movie was not exactly fiction i have read several books on the battle of stalingrad and while the movie isn't totally correct it is based closely on the facts.
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