8x56 or 8x57 for a K98?
I am just trying to find out what ammo my mausers shoot. One is a German 98 8mm. all original and dated 1942. The other is a Turkish Mauser in 8mm. Do they shoot the same 8mm or different? And does anyone know for sure what uses what? Any help would be appreciated.
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John;
Unless they have been rebarreled or rechambered they SHOULD
fire the 8x57js cartridge. However, the best way to find out
for sure would be to do a creo-safe cast of the chambers. This will give you a measurable cast of you're chambers for comparison to the respective cartridges. Anpther way would be to use head space guages to determine the chambering. This is less reliable than the casting however. Hope this helps.0 -
John, while I agree with the check Python suggests, the 8x57 and 8x56 are *radically* different designs. The 8x56 is a rimmed cartridge (correct name is 8x56R) and has a *much* larger body diameter than the 7.92x57 (technical designation of the 8x57). You wouldn't be able to chamber the 8x56R in the 7.92x57 while in the opposite situation, the 7.92x57 would have at least .250" slop. Further, highly unlikely someone would alter either the German or Turkish Mauser to 8x56R, as this would require a massive alteration to the action as well as rebarreling - i.e., the only thing not altered would be the sights, hardly worth it for an inferior cartridge. That is not to say that the rifles could not have been altered to take a different rimless cartridge such as the 8mm-06 or something of that nature, so it is always a good idea to have it checked over by a 'smith before shooting it. 0 -
John, please tell us more about that German K98. Do all serial numbers match, what code is the rifle (found on top of receiver, two or three letters) condition, etc? I love my Mausers, LOL. 
Charlie
"It's the stuff dreams are made of Angel"NRA Certified Firearms InstructorMember: GOA, RKBA, NJSPBA, NJ area rep for the 2ndAMPD. njretcop@copmail.com0 -
Well there is in fact an 8X56 Mannlicher Schoenaur which hasn't been loaded in years and years that is almost identical to the 8X57 but I'm betting you are talking 8X56R here so the answer is the proper ammo for your guns is 8X57IS--- NOT "J"- this is a common misconception; german script designated the modern 8mm round as "IS" for Infanterie, spitzer (pointed) and adopted early in the 1900s. In short, any 8mm surplus or commercial should be safe in your guns but beware, surplus is corrosive and needs cleaning with hot soap and water, then drying after shooting.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf0 -
"...they SHOULD fire the 8x57js cartridge..." No, they don't. That's the ammo that used a .318" bullet. No 1942 Mauser used that. The Turkish Mauser, assuming it's a K-98(if they look the same, it is.) They both shoot 8mm Mauser. (aka 8x57/7.92mmx57mm.) Ammo is readily available. Commercial and surplus. Use the commercial, then reload. You've also got a rifle that was made before the wartime cutbacks kicked in.
Here's a good page that'll tell you everything you ever wanted to know about the 8mm Mauser.
http://www.infantryrifles.com/8_8mm.html0 -
Ok, I see more detail here.
Sunray, you are right and you are wrong. The 8mm round adopted in 1888 featured a round nosed bullet of .318" diameter. It's proper designation is 7.9X57I where the "I" stands for Infanterie. Stupid Americans years and years ago first saw this "I" and said, "duh, it's a "J" Cleavis (not realizing that an "I" in fractal German/Gothic script looks like a "J" to American eyes), let's call this here ammo 8X57J becuz 7.9 is too hard to understand!" So 8X57I, 7.92X57I, and 7.9X57I are all .318 loadings, for the 1888 Commission rifle, very early 98s, and a few other oddball pieces no one is likely to find at their local shop. Even a number of manufacturers who have made this cartridge have improperly referred to it as "J" bore ammo which it is NOT; it is "I" bore ammo, which in itself makes no sense considering....
Shortly after the 98 rifle was adopted Germany revolutionized ballistics with the adoption of the Spitzgeschoss, or Spitzer, or "pointed bullet." For reasons best known to them, they decided that the new bullet should be larger in diameter than previous 8mm projectiles, with a nominal diameter of .323". To discern the new round from the old, the new round was designated 7.92X57IS for Infanterie, Spitzer. Later loadings were referred to as 7.92X57IsS for Infanterie, Schweres Spitzer or heavy bullet, being of 198 gr weight compared to I think 156 for the older bullet. So if you see a box marked either 8mm Mauser, 8X57IS, or heaven forbid, 8X57JS, it is modern ammo, with .323" bullets, only to be fired in modern guns.
So Sunray you are right in what ammo this fellow needs but wrong in your designation.
Incidentally there is also an 8X57IR, that is a rimmed version of the 8mm that one should avoid, unless of course you have a rifle chambered for it.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf0 -
Well said Jon!
The reason for going to the larger diameter bullet in 1905 was this. The Germans found that the new streamlined spitzer bullet did not have as great a bearing surface as the old round nose bullet and was stripping through the rifleing, so it was decided to deepen the grooves from .318 to .323 and also make the bullet larger to fill the new grooves, so that the rifleing would have a better grip on the bullet.0
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