ID old rifle 1876
I just picked up this old rifle I know nothing about, It is marked " TORRE ANNUNZIATA" on the barell and below it marked 1876 and on the other side marked Y 9030 and a 33 inch barell. It also has a stop sign shaped emblem on the stock with lettering I can not make out.
It is a bolt action rifle and looks to have a magazine (missing) that takes small sized ammo. Any help? I can send pictures if interested.
Thanks in advance, Marc
It is a bolt action rifle and looks to have a magazine (missing) that takes small sized ammo. Any help? I can send pictures if interested.
Thanks in advance, Marc
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I believe your Rifle is a Italian Model 1870/87 Vetterli-Vitali. It was made in 1876 in the Arsenal of "Fabbrica D'Armi Di Torre Annunziata. This link is very good, it goes into great detail on your rifle.
http://militaryrifles.com/Italy/ItalVetVitali.htm0 -
oddly enough, i just bid on one of these guns, and hope to bring it home if i win the auction.
you have a M1870/87/16 RIFLE, a 6.5X52 CARCANO CONVERSION of the VETTERLI RIFLE.
most of these guns were converted at the TERNI ARSENAL in ITALY, a small percentage being farmed out to the gunsmiths of the GARDONE area. the action is locked by two lugs on the bolt body by engaging recesses in the reciever behind the elevator well as the bolt handle was turned down.
conversion of the obsolescent Mo. 1870/87 VETTERLI-VITALI rifles was authorized in 1916, partly to offset losses of the M1891 (MANNLICHER-CARCANO) guns and partly to arm newly raised units, and ITALIAN colonial garrisons. the work consisted of boring out the BBL, inserting a rifled liner, changing the sights, and substituting a mannlicher magazine for the older VITALI type.
the design of the action, the position of the locking lugs, and the often poor quality of the smith work at the arsenal made the action and breech only barely able to withstand the pressure generated by the new 6.5mm cartridge. the rifles were removed from front line service, being relagated to artillery, line of communications, and militia troops. some colonial infantry in north africa and "home gaurd" last ditch militia used these arms up until the ITALIAN capitulation in 1941.
MODEL 1870-87-16 RIFLE FUCILE DI FANTERIA
52.95 OAL
10.19 LBS EMPTY
33.85" BBL
4 GROOVE RIFLING, RH CONCENTRIC
FIXED CLIP FED BOX MAGAZINE (6 RDS)
SIGHT GRADUATED TO 2000 METERS(2185 YDS)
2395 FPS WITH Mo. 1891/95 BALL AMMO
Mo. 1870/15 BAYONET
converted from the 10.35x47 rimmless
do not ever attempt to fire this gun with modern ammo. it will explode into pieces, killing or injuring anybody nearbye. even properly loaded mil spec low powder/pressure period correct handloads are dubious. 2400FPS out of a 110 yr old action is not a good idea. i like these guns, and hope to use mine (if i win it) as a wall hanger. best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0 -
Thanks, you guys are a plethera of information!
My dad who is 80 years old just gave me this rifle to sell for him and said he had the bayonet for it and all.
Thanks,
Marc0 -
honestly, i ha 3 referance books on my desk open to the listings concerning this specific model of rifle when i saw your question. i was in the process of reviewing information on the ammunition in CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD at the time. glad we could be of help. best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0 -
I have one of the 6.5 Carcano conversions. Honestly I have never heard of one failing and have heard of people shooting NORMA ammo out of them but I wouldn't try it. I shoot mine with cast lead bullets and only starting powder charges, which push them along at about 1400 fps. And even then I've only shot the gun once and only intend to shoot if very rarely.
Also possible you have one of the guns still in 10.4 RF in which case a CF conversion would be appropriate if you want to shoot it, using black powder.
"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf0 -
I would NEVER fire this gun! Let alone the thing weighs 11 pounds. It looks to old and fragile. Thanks for all the info. 0 -
The Italian Vetterli is a Center fire, (10.4 x 47mm). The Swiss Vetterli is the Rimfire, (10.4 x 38mm). 0 -
that is were it gets a little hazy and confusing. the official SWISS military round is rimfire, but a centerfire version was loaded in europe. american companies sold both varieties up until 1942 (WWII). perhaps ICONCLAST can explain it better. best regards, mike.
What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.0
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