458 Upgrade.
Our wildcat 458 Hubel Express will do.We are going to get a run of brass made.We developed this over a 3 year period with 17 powders.
4 bullet weights, two barrel lengths, firing 1900 rounds.This cartridge is perfect for Ruger #1.We used it in single shot in two
bolt actions also.examle loads-Will get 500 gr bullet over 2800
fps.350 gr 3500 fps.With moderate loads the brass will last over 50
loads or more.Here is pic of two flanking a 458 Win.The one on the
left has been loaded a 100 times with moderate 350 gr loads.Ed.
Ed Hubel
4 bullet weights, two barrel lengths, firing 1900 rounds.This cartridge is perfect for Ruger #1.We used it in single shot in two
bolt actions also.examle loads-Will get 500 gr bullet over 2800
fps.350 gr 3500 fps.With moderate loads the brass will last over 50
loads or more.Here is pic of two flanking a 458 Win.The one on the
left has been loaded a 100 times with moderate 350 gr loads.Ed.
Ed Hubel
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Not sure what you would do with a 500 at 2,800 fps (or a 350 at 3,500 for that matter) and I bet those cases cost more than an equal weight of gold. But as long as you're having fun. What bolt action did you use that was long enough for this thing?
&0 -
Ampersand---
They can be loaded down a little so that they can be reloaded
forever. I made brass from 450 NE brass.Have a 150 left
for me.Thats why we are getting a run of factory brass made.
It took a little work to make them.New ones will be 3 bucks
each, for manufacturing,shipping,etc.Our test rifles were
a Ruger 77 and P-14 Enfield.Had to change bolt stop and had to
shorten rear bridge to make port longer.Used as single shot.
Now the Enfeild can have mag long enough with a little work.
350 & 400 gr are great for deer,elk, and bear.We put a 400 gr
through a buck, then a doe, and halfway through pine stump.
Instant kills.Stump didn't run away either.Ed
Ed Hubel0 -
Hi Ed,
I think that you are working in the wrong direction. For more then 25 years now wildcat cartridges have focused on providing magnum ballistics in cartridges short enough to work through standard length actions and I see no real change in that direction. When I designed the .425 American about 20 years ago the idea was to equal .425 Westley Richards ballistics in a cartridge short enough to work through a standard length action. We succeed in driveing a 400 grain bullet at 2500 fps which was our goal. However, the cartridge was not a financial success and only about a dozen rifles have been built. The public doesn't seem interested in cartridges with a cartridge case longer then 2.5 inches or a power range much greater then the .458 magnum.
Best of luck with your project. Scout0 -
And this uses what size bolt face?
AlleninAlaska
Delta Firearms & Supplies
He who dares not offend cannot be honest.
-- Thomas Paine0 -
I too am intrigued, but I am not sure of the need for the cartridge either, the .460 Weatherby will push a 500 gr bullet at 2600, a 450 gr bullet at 2700 and is already more than powerful enough with 7,500 foot-pounds of energy (and more than punishing enough), and is commercially available (for what, $3.00 a shot?). If I needed more energy than either the .458 Win mag or the more powerful .460 weatherby, then I'd just get a .50 BMG... But that is just me. It is probably a fun hobby to create something that was truely your own creating, I can respect and admire that. I hope it goes well for you.
It doesn't matter what you shoot, just shoot it well...0 -
Folks this cartridge mainly appeals to big bore aficienados.
It is mainly for use in single shots like Rugers.Will work in other single shots, over/undersAnd as you say
you can use Weatherby, but the "shooting a lot bunch" needs
a case reloadable 50 times for the 3 buck cost of the case.AAnd as long as reloading, they can do lots of shooting and big game hunting
with 350 gr spitzer bullets.And a straight taper case is the only way to not overwork brass. With 350 gr at about 31-3200 you can reload a 100 times.And it will shoot flatter than a 30-06 with
light bullets.500 gr downloaded to Weatherby speeds you can reload
50 times...The rim is .532 like H&H cases--Belt is .543 compared
to H&H .532--Headspace is .235. compared to .220 for H&H---As far as the length goes everyone and his brother has developed short big
bores.Or stolen them from others, ala, 416 Rem swiped from Hoffman,
Taylor,you folks with a close size, Keith-O'Neal-Hopkins with their
424 short and long,416 Alaskan, etc.
And then when one should have been swiped from longer versions, Winchester didn't do it with the 458 Win...If they would have built
that like the Lott or Watt, they would own 90% of the big bore market.
I think most gunnys are not like Victorian ladies,who didn't expound
on the virtues of length,but will like long cartridges; and realize that the short craze is driven by writers, companies, and wanting to introduce all kinds of new
business replacing exixting calibers. ED.
Ed Hubel0 -
Oh, Fudge,- I wanted to start on a .458 Lott and you came up with this.
I have a .375 H&H and have built some .510 Wells,- a .460 Wby. necked up to .50, on the P-14s, and with an overall length of 3.583 they cycle o.k. in a magazine box of 3.734 length.
Have reached 2456 fps. with a 604 gr. bullet.
I'm curious as to the overall length of this one.
As for these long cartridges, when you're excited while jacking in a quick second shot, you're not aware whether you're stroking the bolt 3-1/8 inches or 3-3/4.
Don't let the nay-sayers talk you into shortening it up.
I bet I know what Capt. Kirk is thinking. - - "And what was the original question?"0 -
The overall loaded length is from 4.0 to 4.3 inches depending on
bullet.You can get a 458 Lott in a #1, and rechamber to mine later.
Mine will rechamber 458 Win,Lott,Watt, Ackley. etc. We have two
bolt actions chamber to 458 HE, using them as single shots,a Ruger 77
and P-14 Enfield.The Enfield can get a mag in it by changing sear
spring to a flat one behind pivot to be able to open action for a
long mag well.There is no way I would shorten cartridge as the length
is what makes the power, with brass being reloadable 50 times.Ed.
Ed Hubel0 -
Ed,
Unless you are going to use this cartridge in double rifles where you need something for the extractors to work against, why would you have put a belt on this thing? Also, you are right that the more powder that you can cram into a case the more velocity you can get out of it. However, it is a well proven fact that smokeless powder burns more effciently in a short column then it does in a long column. Iam sure that if someone wanted to take the time they could equal your ballistics in a shorter fatter case. I have been down this road and have no desire to do it again. Therefore, I wish you the best of luck.0 -
If it is sucessful we might make a rimmed version, for doubles,
over/unders, strong break actions, etc..My experiments
show that a long straight no shoulder powder column will get more
velocity than shorter case with a shoulder,with right powders.
We tried to equal
my velocities with neighbors Weatherby but couldn't; and I only
have 3 grains more water capacity. Only some single base stick
powders are more efficient in short fat cases compared to long
straight ones, we found out, but those don't have the total energy and higher density as the best loadings for ours the double-base ball...My brass was soft, and Weatherby brass was hard so I know he
was running 10,000psi more than us, and he still couldn't equal our
cartridge.Of course we have some ballistic engineering on ours,in
that straight case allows the use of a little faster ball powder,
but it gets to peak pressure after ignition slower than what could be used in his Weatherby, but then takes off so to speak, so that the area under the pressure curve is larger.That curve size is the only thing really that determines the energy out the end of the barrel.Ed.
Ed Hubel0
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