209 vs. # 11 caps
Last year, Pennsylvania adopted a 3 day doe only deer hunt for in-line muzzle loaders. With the never ending changes, I decided to upgrade and also buy a in-line. I have a Winchester X-150 with the 209 ignition system. My question: Is the 209 better or worse than upgrading to the # 11 cap system ?
Thanks !!!
Hunterisme
Thanks !!!
Hunterisme
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My only experience with the #11 caps has been on an old CVA Hawken that I put together many years ago. Using the #11 caps and FFFg black powder I had many misfires. Last year I fired about 15 rounds through a T/C Omega during sight-in and hunting and never had a problem. I have since bought an T/C Encore 209x50 and fired 12 rounds without any misfires. Both the T/C's were fired using 100 gr loads of Pyrodex pellets. This is not a direct comparison since the CVA is a side hammer percussion ignition and both of the T/C's are modern in-lines. If you are shooting an in-line rifle I would stick with the 209's aas they give you a hotter flame which should provide an more reliable ignition. Just my 2 cents.
In our schools, if we train the mind and not morals we will unleash criminals on society...Dr. Benjamin Rush0 -
To simplify the answer, if you're shooting pellets with your in-line, use 209's for sure (yeah, the #ll's light most of the time, but when the perfect shot presents itself you don't want to wonder if your gun will fire). For loose powder, the percentage of times the #11 will light the powder goes up, but the 209 is still muzzleloading king. To get an idea of how much different each of them spark, go outside somewhere where it is real dark and don't load any powder, just put on a cap of each type and fire them. You'll be suprised by the difference in sound and flame from the 209's over the #11's.
BTW, most people would consider going to the #11's a downgrade not an upgrade. MOST people consider the power (from lowest to highest) #11 caps, then musket caps, then 209 shotshell primers.
With a properly maintained muzzleloader (inline or sidelock) the misfires can be nearly non-existant. You'll have to adopt a few cleaning and storage strategies, and also a way to clean out and dry the barrel for season.
I'll give you a few of the things I do.
After shooting I give the gun a very thorough cleaning paying special attention to the breech, bolster, and nipple areas. These are the easiest places to miss something (especially on a sidelock) and is likely the most critical places to get.
After storage before season I first dry-swab the barrel several times, then I take the gun out and fire a couple caps through it, then I dry swab again. I then pour a LITTLE loose powder (not a pellet) down the barrel, swirling it as you do it. Any moisture or residue left in the barrel will likely grab some of the loose powder and burn when you fire off another cap. (this looks kinda cool at night). I then clean everything again but use no solvent, just dry brushes and patches, again pay special attention to the breech area and mainly the nipple. (all this takes longer to type than to actually do, something like 3-5 minutes should get it).
Here's what I consider to be the 2nd most important step (after ensuring the nipple is clean). Store the firearm outside (maybe in your truck, shed or somewhere like that), what happens if you store the gun indoors is that is likely to drop fairly cold at night and you'll probably have the heater running in the house. In the morning when you head out hunting the change in temperature will cause the barrel to condensate and can cause ignition problems. I personally load the gun the night before after firing and waiting for it to cool (if it was warm). I then stick a balloon or condom over the muzzle and put a cap protector over the nipple. I don't stick the cap on it til I am ready to hunt the next day.
Well, that's the best advice I've got for any new muzzleloader hunters. I've taken over 50 deer with my CVA sidelock (#11) and another 10 or so with my Remington 700ML with all 3 cap types. (I've only taken a little over 70 deer in my life, so you can see how much of my time has been spent with a smokepole in my hands)...
Good luck and good hunting!
It doesn't matter what you shoot, just shoot it well...0 -
209's all the way down. They are hotter and more reliable. 0 -
I'm with he dog, the 209 is much more reliable, and a much hotter ignition system. Almost everyone I know that have the in-lines that were produced with #11 primers, have converted to the 209 system. The 209 primer is nothing more than a shotgun primer, but is also much more weather resistant than the #11.
Hope this helps,
woodyd0 -
I have hunted ten years with a sidelock using #11 caps and never had a misfire, knock on wood. I use pipecleaners and get that nipple and drum real clean. If I had a rifle with a 209 system I would not convert to #11.
Taking a rifle from a warm house out into the cold would not cause condensation. Taking a cold rifle from outdoors into the warm house is where you would get condensation. Think of the iced tea glass, cold glass, warm summer day, lots of condensation. Or, if you are me, the same thing works with a double gin and tonic. On the other hand you won't see condensation on a coffee cup.0 -
I have ML that uses 209 primers. Out of about 100 shots, I only had 1 misfire... when I forgot the powder. 0 -
209's
I'm a man,....but I can change,.....If I have to,......I guess.0 -
I think that #11's are the perfect compromise; they are more reliable than flint but not a perversion of the intent of muzzle loader hunting. With the modern in-lines with shotgun primers and scopes, you might as well be hunting with a cartridge rifle. Needless to say, I am in favor of "primitive" hunting seasons and the attendant restrictions.
NRA ENdowment, CRPA Life, NRA ILA EVC, Past President NRA Members Council
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem. Semper Fidelis0 -
209's.....you can get these anywhere......well maybe not at 7-11..... 0 -
Yes, they will condensate going from hot to cold. Minor changes in temperature shouldn't matter. I don't know, maybe it is the humidity in Kansas where I've taken all my deer, but some of my el-cheapo scopes will fog over doing the same thing. I can go from a 75 degree low humidity house to the outside where the air is maybe 20-40 degrees and the humidity is usually high there and within minutes the metal will sometimes get visibly wet, even when it isn't visible, it still happens some. I don't know if this would be a problem where the temperature isn't as far off from indoor temperature, or maybe in a drier climate but it sure happens there... Take the advice or leave it, it don't matter to me - just telling ya'all what works for me. (no offense meant or taken allan, if it matters). [;)]
It doesn't matter what you shoot, just shoot it well...0 -
I will mix up another gin and tonic, just to prove you wrong. 0
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