FFL transfer between states:
Greetings all:
I need advice on a recent purchase. Just won a bid on a Colt python and really excited on receiving it. The seller is from Fla. and I'm from Phila. Pa. area. Last week, upon making arrangements to transfer the firearm, the seller informed my that I had to send my FFl dealer's paper work to him (a non FFL dealer) who would then present to FEDEX personnel for verification and shipping. When I went to my FFL dealer to request to send his license to the seller, he told me that he cannot send his license to a non-FFl holder but only to another FFL holder for this transaction to partake. In other words, only FFL to FFL transfer will be allowed.
Now at this time the seller reminds me that this is not true as evidence by the literature at GunBroker.com stating that Non-FFL holders may verify FFl authentication via the Web site for shipping purposes.
WHICH ONE IS IT, can this transaction ensue with just one FFL holder or need we TWO FFL holders between states.
The Seller also claims that he check with 4 guns shops over the weekend in Fla. who all 4 claim that they do not want to gt involved. Somehow I find it hard to believe as FFl Holders charge a fee for this service from anywhere of 30 to 50 dollars.
In Philadelphia, I've check 3 FFl holders I've dealt with in the past and all claimed that they need to deal with an FFl holder from the other state for this transfer to go thru...
H E L P P L E A S E....
Thanks in advance
Roy D.
I need advice on a recent purchase. Just won a bid on a Colt python and really excited on receiving it. The seller is from Fla. and I'm from Phila. Pa. area. Last week, upon making arrangements to transfer the firearm, the seller informed my that I had to send my FFl dealer's paper work to him (a non FFL dealer) who would then present to FEDEX personnel for verification and shipping. When I went to my FFL dealer to request to send his license to the seller, he told me that he cannot send his license to a non-FFl holder but only to another FFL holder for this transaction to partake. In other words, only FFL to FFL transfer will be allowed.
Now at this time the seller reminds me that this is not true as evidence by the literature at GunBroker.com stating that Non-FFL holders may verify FFl authentication via the Web site for shipping purposes.
WHICH ONE IS IT, can this transaction ensue with just one FFL holder or need we TWO FFL holders between states.
The Seller also claims that he check with 4 guns shops over the weekend in Fla. who all 4 claim that they do not want to gt involved. Somehow I find it hard to believe as FFl Holders charge a fee for this service from anywhere of 30 to 50 dollars.
In Philadelphia, I've check 3 FFl holders I've dealt with in the past and all claimed that they need to deal with an FFl holder from the other state for this transfer to go thru...
H E L P P L E A S E....
Thanks in advance
Roy D.
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Unless state or local laws require it. He is wrong on it being a legal requirement. Federal law only requires the person receiving the weapon to be licensed. Or he could be writing his own rules and covering his butt.
Woods
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Woods is correct, except that the receiving dealer must have EITHER the sender's FFL/C&R # OR name and address in order to complete the "Receipts" column of his bound book. That is why I always send a photocopy of my drivers license to the receiving dealer, so that he can be confident that he is entering correct information in his bound book. Some dealers will supply a photocopy of their FFL annotated "File copy only"; apparently this relieves their paranoia.
As for the legal question, this is covered in Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide (ATF P5300.4), page 135, paragraph (B1): "To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her State, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any State."
You might ask the seller to request his dealer to read this; EVERY dealer has a copy of this book.
The bottom line is that you can't force any dealer to participate in any transfer, and that is why I always line up a dealer before entering into a transaction where I will need one. Expect negative feedback if the transactions falls through, as you failed to do your homework before bidding.
As I have said before, the refusal of dealers to accept shipments from individuals is based on either greed, ignorance, or stupidity. Some, I am sure, think that this position will help them sell guns from stock at a greater profit; I doubt that this is so. You would think that half of something is better than all of nothing. But, you could fill a trash dumpster with the FFLs of now-defunct dealers whose business smarts were deficient.
Neal0 -
We are licensed dealers here in NY State and I would like to believe we are still in business because my business smarts arent deficient. As I have stated before many dealers are covering themselves regardless of what the ATF Guide tells us. It has been said before that you could call 10 BATF agents and ask them this question that has been posed and most likely get 10 different answers. Who really wants to take the chance to make $20.00 on a transfer ? The BATF is looking for any kind of loophole in your business practices to shut you down. I feed a family of 6 with mine and dont want to lose it. Paranoia is a terrible thing. In my state any handgun that comes in must either be from a FFL or a licensed pistol holder in this state. We must register every handgun with the state police database in Albany on a P-12 form. There is no way around this atleast in this state. Dont know how the others are though. 0 -
emulz -- You simply picked out a dealer in your area who does not wish to participate in the online auction business. Find another dealer. Obviously the law requires a non-licensed person to ship to an FFL. You need to find an FFL who will agree to accept that shipment. Not all FFLs want to do transfers.
Life NRA Member
T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."0 -
Thank you everyone for their valuable response. At this point I've called 5 different FFl holder I've dealt with in the pass and so far, as for all five, none wants to deal without another FFL dealer from the other state. Some have even argued that it is against the law for them to receive from a non-FFl holder. When enlightening them, they became defensive and didn't even want to hear anything I had to say.
So for anyone in the Philadelphia area who may be reading this, Please provide you contact number as I would like to pay the seller for the gun I want.
I guess this is a lesson for me to learn ...before buying from a non-FFL dealer from another state..
Thanks again...
Roy0 -
Go here http://www.gunbroker.com/user/DealerNetwork.asp
plug in your state, one of these guys should help.
Also inform the FFL holder that have refused you that they have lost any future business form you.
Boomer
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member0 -
At this point, you may be better off cutting your losses. Ask the seller to ship through his local FFL; of course, you will be expected to pay that additional fee.
However, it may not be as bad as it seems. If HE had shipped the gun, he would have had to use UPS or FEDEX Next Day Air, which could easily have cost $40-50. If an FFL ships it, he can use USPS and the shipping charge will be closer to $20.
So, at least you have a local dealer willing to accept a firearm from another dealer; in MY area, none of the dealers will even do that.
Neal0
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