Russian AK'S
Just wondering why I've never seen or heard about any Russian AK's around for sell or anything (the old ones)...did any of these ak's ever make it into the country? I've seen just about every other countries copy of the ak...why not the Russian? Isn't the Russian version supposed to be the poop? I've have seen the newer Izhmash ak's but what about the older ones? This might be a silly question but I've always wondered...can anyone fullfill my thirst for knowledge on this subject? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks in advance!!
Larzman
Larzman
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By older Russian AK's do you mean semiauto rifles or are you wondering about machineguns? The lack of semiauto Russian made Kalashnikov's is very easy to explain; When the Bush ban (that is Pappa Bush) went into effect in 1989 the Russians were still the USSR and the evil empire. There were very few Soviet sporting arms of any type imported into this country at this time. What few were brought in were shotguns and target pistols imported by service persons or others who were assigned or stationed in Europe. The Soviets did not make a semiauto AK (although there was a semiauto sporting rifle called the Medved used by Soviet hunters which used the AK action) and no American importer was going to be allowed into the USSR to make any deals with arms plants which were totally controled by an unfriendly communist government.
When the communist governmaent collapsed it was well after the Bush ban was in place and that meant no military clones of Russian AK's would be allowed into the country. As an added bonus the new Clinton administration more or less forced the Russians into a "voluntary" trade restraint agreement which prevented the importation of nearly any surplus self loading firearms of any type. That put an end to the SKS carbines, SVT-40's, Tokarov's and many other Russian surplus miltary arms which were starting to find their way into the United States. Are you with me on this so far Larzman?
There are some Russian made AK-47 machineguns in the United States and if you have the money (BIG money) you might find one for sale. The only live Russian made AK's were captured in Viet Nam and imported by service persons and others before 1969. After that date no more machineguns could be imported by private individuals. At the momment I would guess that a transferable Russian made AK-47 would sell in the $20,000 range. A later AKM would be less expensive- maybe $15,000 since they are more "common". There are some post-68 sales samples in the country and they move at $8-10,000. Any interest in purchasing a live Russian AK? I hope this answers your questions.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Thanks Mark...you answered my question and then some...was hoping that you'd reply to the thread since your one of the top ak gurus on this board...yes your reply totally makes since...I understand now why ya don't see em around (at that price range)...although I'd love to have one...would probably never be able to drop 10 or 20 grand to buy one...yes I was taking about a fully auto machine gun when I was referring to ak...will have to settle for an Izhmash I guess...which isn't so bad!! Thanks so much for your time and info Mark...it's appreciated!!
Larzman0 -
Mark:
How about continuing on here? Between 1985 and 1989, wasn't there some AK's like the Hungarian in semi auto imported such as Bulgarian and other Soviet Bloc nations arms, also? I know these are semi and not full auto, but aside from the Hungarian, were there any others and if so, what were they? Thanks!
"Life is FRAGILE!" Handle With Care!0 -
There were a few different preban (pre 1989) AK's imported from various countries. I am leaving out the Valmets and Galils since I consider these to be different rifles- not true kalashnikov's- they just use the action. The very first AK's to hit were Egyptian rifles manufactured by Maddi and imported into this country by Steyr. The Soviets were kind enough to supply the Egyptian government with a complete "turn key" set up for producing AK's and the Egyptian's decided to make a few bucks on the commercial sporting arms market. These rifles sold for about $800 back in the late 1970's which made them very expensive at the time. Ammuniton was hard to find as well since back then only Norma loaded 7.62X39 was available in this country, at about $20 per box! These early Maddi's are EXACT relicas of Soviet AK's since they were made on Soviet tooling which was installed and set up by Russian technicians. You don't see these Steyr/Maddi's around very often.
Enter the Chinese. During the early 1980's our relations with the Chicoms became very friendly and they gained favored nation status as far as trade and tariffs were concerned. The floodgates for Chinese firearms were now open and everything under the sun flowed into the USA at bargan prices. I remember seeing AK's at under $250 and you could buy a full case of Chinese 7.62X39 for well under $100. These were the best of times...but the worst was soon to follow because with these kinds of low prices these guns became very popular and began to attract the attention of anti-gun forces.
I have already told you about the error which allowed your Hungarian AK into the country. Hungary had no favored nation status at the time and firearms from Hungary should have been prohibited from importation or charged a 150% tariff. This is why you never saw any early CZ-75 pistols imported into the USA from Czech.- these governments were considered unfriendly and their products needed to be taxed heavily- that would teach those dirty rotten commies a lesson! No wonder those peole were always so mad at us. Some firearms were brought in through Europe or Canada, but no AK's.
The only other eastern block AK's that made it in before the 1989 ban were Zastava's from Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia was still communist but they were non aligned and considered friendly. Two firms imported Kalashnikovs from Yugoslavia- American Arms and Mitchell Arms. I have exapmles from each importer- a fixed stock standard rifle, an under folder, and a heavy barreled RPK type rifle and all of these are top quality. The only thing left off the Yugos were the grenade launchers as these were restricted on firearms other than C&R by the Gun Control Act of 1968 which considerd grenade launchers "non sporting".
After the 1989 ban sorted itself out, we all watched as the Berlin wall came down and we soon began to see Romanian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Chinese and more Egyptian AK "sporters" brought into the country. The Yugoslavian's began their civil war and there was an arms embargo in place which prevented them from shipping any more firearms into the United States. I've been to the Zastava factory in Yugoslavia- they build AK's on one side and Yugo automobiles on the other. I also picked up my missing grenade launcher to complete my AK.
In 1994 Clinton pulled the plug on all imported Chinese firearms with rifled barrels so as to punish Bejing for human rights voilations. Of course he did not stop the import of any other Chinese products- just guns- and left the other billions of dollars in trade with China alone. In 1998 Clinton again used an executive order to prevent the importation of any semiautomatic rifles which could accept a banned high capacity magazine, that is why you'll see some AK types which will only accept a single stack magazine. By this time however most importers had been burned so many time that they simply decided to establish production facilities here in the US and build their own AK's and not have to worry anymore about the ever changing import restrictions. Have you got all of that Paul? I think you now owe me the answers to at least 5 Colt questions! Let me know if you want to know anything specific as this just scratches the surface of a very long and complicated story.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Mark:
What are your thoughts or feelings about the SAR family of AK's? I have seen the SAR 1, 2 and 3 for sale at a reasonable cost. Any help would be appreciated. [8D]
Greg0 -
Hello Greg, I own four Romanian Kalashnikov's- two AK-47's in 7.62X39 and two AK-74's. The earliest of these rifles was a very well put together gun with nice fit and finsh and decent looking wood. The later three guns varied a lot as far as quality is concerned. The front sight on one of the AK-74's was left so roughly finished that it is actually sharp to the touch. Any of the 7.62X39 or 5.45 caliber guns will work reliably but you should take a close look at several and pick out the nicer of the group. The ones I've seen for sale lately loook pretty rough as far as condition goes. I never bothered with any AK chambered for the .223 since I have AR-15's and Bushmasters for that purpose.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Thank You Mark. [8D]
Greg0 -
Mark, you did GOOD! You may have the answers to SIX Colt questions for this info! Thank you! I know it is a long and convuluted story with many twists and turns....thanks to all the bans, executive order, nation friendly....un-friendly status, etc. Makes one scratch their head and think seriously about what cause such. Anyway, here's the latest in my Colt stuff.
I am looking for Coltsman Rifles, preferable the Sako ones. Just found me one from 1959 in overall 98% plus a little maybe. These seem to be overlooked. There was only about 10,000 of these made. They were marketed in the U.S., Canada, and Europe, which makes it hard to find them.....most being sold out of the country. The one I have found is a .308 Winchester, in Custom grade. So, as a Colt Collector to a Gun Dealer......"Got any of these?" Any information you might know about them is also appreciated. Thanks again for the AK Info!
"Life is FRAGILE!" Handle With Care!0
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