4.5mm Cartridge Question

A-37

February 20, 2003 14:26

Need all dimensions of a 4.5mm cartridge and a .22LR for comparison purposes.

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  kingjoey

  February 20, 2003 14:33

  4.5 mm? Which one? That should be one of the 17 cal cartridges.

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  rufe-snow

  February 20, 2003 15:17

  I believe the gentleman is referring to the 5.45 x 18 Russian Pistol Round as compared to the .22 LR
  
  These tables have the information your looking for.
  
  
  http://www.integraonline.com/~bbroadside/General_Info.html
  
  http://www.integraonline.com/~bbroadside/Ballistic_Info.html

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  A-37

  February 20, 2003 15:43

  Looks like I'll have to get more info from the gentleman who asked me to post this question. Thanks for all the help.

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  A-37

  February 21, 2003 06:36

  Okay, here's more info: It's a pre-WWII German rifle (training?) with a spoon bolt handle, single-shot. Roll stampings: Suhl, Prazisions, Karabiner, 4.5mm, Simson & Co. (Canadian Sear's?). It will chamber and fire a .22LR (tight fit). Anyone have any info on the 4.5mm cartridge it fires?

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  kingjoey

  February 21, 2003 07:09

  Probably a 4.5mm Lilliput or Kolibri. Used in Europe back in the early to mid 1900's for training and gallery guns. I'll take a look in my book tonight.

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  rufe-snow

  February 21, 2003 08:49

  Found your rifle in my book "SIMSON-PRAZISIONS-KARABINER" made by Simson & Co. of Suhl Germany between 1927 and 1932.
  Book notes the available calibers this Rifle was chambered in as being 22 Short Rimfire & 22 Extra Long Rimfire. The Metric designations for these cartridges are 5.6mm Nr. 2 and 5.6mm Nr. 7.
  It's interesting that you have a rifle marked 4.5mm, but will chamber and fire .22 ammo.
  In Metric dimentions 4.5 mm is equivalent to .177 caliber. This is considerably smaller then .222 that is the diameter of the .22 Rimfire cartridge.
  The only thing that i can think of, is that if the original 4.5 mm ammo for the rifle was unavailable, somebody in the past rechambered it for .22 LR.

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  A-37

  February 21, 2003 09:53

  Gentlemen: Thanks for all the research.

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  Iconoclast

  February 22, 2003 03:15

  kingjoey, the Lilliput is 4.25; the Kolibri 3mm and - fairly rare - 2.7mm; all these were used in real tiny pistols and the largest (the Lilliput) is less than half the size of a .22 short. Here's a pic:
  
  
  
  There were 4mm RF, but I've never heard of a 4.5mm . . . then again, metric is not my strong suit and this could be a relatively exotic item?

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  A-37

  February 22, 2003 04:44

  You boys have provided me with some fine research. I had my first look at his rifle this morning; A nicely made, quite small, rifle.
  Guess what? It's stamped "5.3mm" not "4.5mm". It's a .22, after all.

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