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Spencer With an Octagon Barrel

saul069
I have an Old Spencer With an Octagon Barrel. I'm not sure how old it is nor do I know the model. Her is what I have off the gun. Seems to be some kind of sniper rifle. Has a longer barrel and the long rang sight lug on it. My uncle said it was issued to the michigan sharp shooters regiment.
Spencer #46258 GREAT WESTERN GUN WORKS J H JOHNSTON On the top of the action it has printed SPENCER REPEATING RIFLE CO PAT'D MARCH 6 18 . I can't make out the rest. I do have pics if anyone wants to see. I just want to know how much the gun is worth and maybe some info on it! And mabe were I can get some ammo for it!! .45 cal rimfire

Thanks
Saul email: saul069@direcway.com
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Comments

9 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    Sir, My reference shows the "GREAT WESTERN GUN WORKS" of Pittsburgh Pennsylvania to be "Makers, Distributors & Importers" of inexpensive shotguns. Is there any chance the octagon barrel that the Spencer is equiped with now is smothbored?
    This would likely have a substantial affect on it's history, and the uses it was put to after the Civil War.
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  • saul069
    Originally posted by saul069
    I have an Old Spencer With an Octagon Barrel. I'm not sure how old it is nor do I know the model. Her is what I have off the gun.
    Spencer #46258 GREAT WESTERN GUN WORKS J H JOHNSTON On the top of the action it has printed SPENCER REPEATING RIFLE CO PAT'D MARCH 6 18 . I can't make out the rest. I do have pics if anyone wants to see. I just want to know how much the gun is worth and maybe some info on it! And mabe were I can get some ammo for it!!

    Thanks
    Saul email: saul069@direcway.com
    No as far as I know it is a .45 cal Rifled Barrel.
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  • rufe-snow
    After the war in 1866,Spencer brought out a commerical sporting cartridge for his rifles. It was called the 56-46 Spencer,perhaps that is the cartridge your rifle is chambered for? The bullet diameter is app. 44 caliber, which you believe is close to the bore size of your rifle.
    The only question to be answered, is if your rifle was reworked/manufactuered by Spencer in his factory? Or was it a after market rework of a Civil War firearm by the "GREAT WESTERN GUN WORKS"?
    My feeling is it would be substantially more valuable to a collector if it can be attributed to the Spencer factory.
    Your going to need a hands-on appraisal by some one who has a lot of experience with Spencer firearms made during the post Civil Years 1866-1869.
    I doubt very seriously if photographs would suffice.
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  • Iroquois Scout
    Rufe-Snow is correct, your rifle is the Spencer sporting rifle made by Spencer from 1866-1872 when the company was bought out by Winchester. The .56-.46 bottle necked cartridge was loaded with 45 grains of black powder and a 320-330 grain bullet. The cartridge was loaded until 1919 and then dropped. Your rifle is equipped with a long range rear sight,but is NOT a sniper rifle. These civilian rifles can be quite valuable and you should have it apprised.
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  • saul069
    Does any on know were I can get it appraised at in Lower Michigan. Maybe Indiana? Or for that matter anywhere!
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  • rufe-snow
    Courtesy of John Spangler's outstanding web-site, www.armscollectors.com here is a list of collectors organizations that have web-sites. Do a GOOGLE search on the name, then contact them. Hopefully they will be able to put you in contact with a REPUTABLE appraiser/dealer in your area.

    Alaska Gun Collectors Association
    Arizona Arms Association
    Baltimore Antique Arms Show
    Buffalo Bill Historical Center/Cody Firearms Museum
    Colorado Gun Collectors Association
    The Dallas Arms Collectors Association
    Forks of the Delaware Historical Arms Society
    Historical Arms Collectors Society Of B.C
    Houston Gun Collectors Association
    Maryland Arms Collectors Association
    Minnesota Weapons Collectors Association
    The Missouri Valley Arms Collectors Association
    New Mexico Gun Collectors Association
    Ohio Gun Collectors Association
    Ontario Arms Collectors Association
    Oregon Arms Collectors
    Pennsylvania Antique Gun Collectors Association
    Pennsylvania Gun Collectors Association
    Santa Barbara Historical Arms Association
    St.Louis Antique Arms Association
    Texas Gun Collectors Association
    Tulsa Arms Show
    Utah Gun Collectors Association
    Virginia Gun Collectors Association
    The Washington Arms Collectors
    Ye Connecticut Gun Guild
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  • saul069
    Thanks for the info.

    Saul
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  • captkirk3@dslextreme.com
    Good Afternoon Saul; First let me tell You what I have learned about the Great Western Gun Works and J.H. Johnson..
    1. Great Western Gun Works, Pittsburg, Pa., 1866 - 1916, operated by J.H. Johnson, Made 5-shot rim-fire cartridge revolvers [Satterlee & Gluckmann's American Gunmakers, page 59]
    2. Johnson, James H.---Owner and operator of the Great Western Gun Works at Pittsburgh, Pa. Son of John H. Johnson. Born 1836; died about 1916. Learned the gunsmith Trade under J. Senseny of Chambersburg, Pa.
    Father, John H. Johnson, Born in 1811; Died in 1889 [Satterlee & Glucmann's American Gun Makers, Page 81]
    3. Great Western Gun Works - Distributor's, Importers and manufacturers of Firearms..circa 1860-1923 in Pittsburgh, Pa. this from Robert H. Balderson's Official Guide to Gunmarks [Third Edition]
    4. Your Patent Date..{March 6, 1860} The usual markings are on top of the frame are are thus...SPENCER REPEATING/RIFLE CO.BOSTON,MASS./PATID MARCH 6.1860... Not only used during the Civil War, but issued to Troops during the Indian Wars...Now according to FLAYDERMAN"S Guide its stated that a major source of confussion arising in the nomenclature, and oftentimes description and identification, are the caliber designations originally assigned to various models and not in common usage by present day collectors....The Civil War issue Spencer Rifle and Carbine was known as the No.56 or 56-56.. these numbers referring to the measurements at the top and bottom of the copper case, indicating that it was a straight case; In actuality, the Bore measurements were .52 caliber, and in present day collector terms such arms are discribed as .52 Caliber..
    The cartridges used in the Post Civil War models were officially termed the 56-52 and 56-50, each being slightly tapered and both were used interchangabily in all Models..Present day Collectors discribe this as the .50 caliber..referring to Bore diameter.
    From studies made of this particular Arm it's interesting to learn that Spencer always used SIX GROOVE RIFLING while those built under Contract by Burnside or converted at the Armory have THREE GROOVE rifling...There are about 9 different Models in existance..But No Where does it mention an Octagon Barrel Model ever being produced....Looking at the Photos You sent, I see that it has Modern Sights...and NO BARREL BANDS...This leads me to believe that this was a Gun that was converted to another more Modern Cartridge and Sporterised for sale thru the usual outlets of the late 1800's and early 1900's...to the Civialian Market...By Great Western Gun Works..
    5. The caliber is up for debate, as there is No 45 Rim Fire Cartridges listed in Frank Barnes Book Cartridges of the World...or any other sorces at hand..It would be nice to actually have the gun in Hand for a Personal, upfront inspection..!..As for shooting this gun...I'd Say Absolutly NO! under no circumstances should this Collector Piece be Fired...even if You can Find any ammo for it!!! No No No...!The Wood is Old and dry...Prone to Spliting and Metal fatigue..Break a Spring and You'll Find Out just how to Spend some big Bucks finding one or having one made...not alone mentioning the Fact, that, and ANY Originality you had is now gone! Hang it on the Wall or in the Gun Cabinet and enjoy the fact that you have a nice Collector Piece..Even if its an Honest Post Civil War and Indian Wars Spencer...its paid its Dues...retire it with Honor...Not distruction, which could possibly happen...This about all I can do for You at this juncture....I wish you well........Best....Captain Kirk


    Captain Kirk, Tech Staff
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  • saul069
    Thanks For the info Captain Kirk. More than likely it is a .50 cal. But thanks again for the info.

    Saul
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