RE-FINISHED DEPRECIATION?
WHEN YOU BUY AN OLD GUN THAT IS AT APPROX. RATED AT 60% AND RE-FINISH IT TO APPROX. 95% HOW DO YOU DETERMINE THE VALUE? I KNOW THIS IS NOT A GOOD PRACTICE, BUT IF IT IS DONE, WHERE DO YOU START PRICE-WISE? I DO KNOW THAT MANY "COLLECTOR" PIECES BECOME "SHOOTERS" THIS WAY.
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There is really no way to predict the "value" of refinished guns in general. It depends upon which gun you are talking about, who did the refinish work, and the availability of a buyer. Some guns, such as the Colt Paterson revolver, are so rare that they valuable in ANY condition. A Colt 1st generation SAA refinished by a hack in the basement would be worth only a fraction of one restored by Doug Turnbull Restorations. A Colt M1911 with 60% finish will be worth more than the same gun with 99% of a reblue.
The bottom line is that the amount that a buyer is willing to pay on any given day determines the real value of a gun (or anything else.)
Neal0 -
I think that you have gotten some very good advise on this subject. A lot depends on how common the gun is and what the value is before it is refinished. You can refinish a 1948 Winchester 94 in .30-30 and not lose much in value. How ever if you where to refinish an 1860 Henry you are going to lose $5000-$6000 and maybe more,plus haveing dyed in the wool collectors like myself hunting for your scalp. 0 -
THANK YOU FOR THE RESPONSES, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW PEOPLE COME UP WITH A FIGURE {PRICE} TO PUT ON A GUN THAT HAS BEEN RE-STORED? DO YOU LOOK AT BLUE BOOK THEN SUBTRACT FROM THERE? EXAMPLE: YOU HAVE A RARE GERMAN LUGAR THAT HAS BEEN RE-STORED, REALLY WELL, IN BLUE-BOOK THE VALUE IN LET'S SAY $2500.00. IF YOU WERE TO PUT IT UP FOR SALE, WHAT PRICE WOULD YOU START AT? I HAVE SEEN MANY GUNS AT SHOWS AND AT SHOPS THAT HAVE BEEN RE-STORED AND ALMOST ALWAYS THEY ARE MARKED AT NEAR THIER BOOK VALUES, AND THEY SELL!....CONFUSED!?! 0 -
The value of a refinished gun is that of a shooter. No more, no less. In otherwords, if you refinish a $1500 94 Winchester back to 95% fit and finish, it would be worth about $250 because a good 30-30 shooter is worth that. There is zero collector value to the gun after a refinish, and it reduces the parts value because any part that has new finish is also worthless.
Shooter value is what a gun is worth as a shooter in it current condition and has no name recognition let to it. It's worse than making an old winchester a J.C. Higgins.
Measure twice, cut once.
Empty the clip!0 -
I am one of those collectors for whom a refinish destroys the gun.
If you take a worn WWI Colt M1911 worth, say $500, and spend $150 refinishing it, you then have a gun worth from $250 to $500, depending on the tastes and ignorance (ignorance of a new buyer is the key to getting big bucks out of a refinished gun) of the potential buyer. There is no formula for this, it is just my opinion based on years of observation.
I have seen refinished guns bring way too much on GunBroker, apparently due to the ignorance of the buyers. I have had people bring me refinished guns for my evaluation, and they refuse to accept that they are refinished. Many times, they have paid big bucks for a "like new" gun without realizing it is refinished. There is a nickel Colt .38 Super of 1948 vintage on the auction site right now that is refinished and it is getting high bids. Maybe the flash is worth it to the bidders, but the collector value is gone and it is just a shooter, except to the ignorant or tastless.
I would NEVER refinish anything. A rough original at least is honest, and its condition reflects it years of honorable service.
Despite what I have said above, there is a market for true "restoration" of valuable pieces. In a true restoration, the original finish is duplicated, the markings are duplicated (sometimes new roll stamps are made, etc.), etc.. If done right, the gun cannot be told from new, except that it is not. Restored and upgraded Parker shotguns are a special category where people will pay big bucks for the restored pieces. The cost of such a restoration is in the thousands, so the resulting piece has to be worth a lot to justify the cost of the restoration. Turmbull Colts have similar status. Years from now, the "restored" tag will have been lost on these guns and the ignorant will pay big bucks for what they believe is an original gun. Buyer beward.0 -
With the influx of more gun collectors you will see more of a demand for honest guns with some wear. There are many people out there that do good restorations and a lot that do some not so good. It will be harder and harder to tell the very good from the original. This should be where the honest worn gun will shine. It might not look like new but it will be easier to tell if it is original or not. I find it hard to believe that so many firearms are on the market being advertised as original and looking as well as they do. Where are these people getting all of these firearms. Most collectors that have the pristine original pieces have an outlet for them if they should decide to part with them. Granted every now and then one might turn up that was found in the attic, but it seems like there are too many attics with old firearms laying in them. Right now at auction there are several items that I have my doubts about, but you will find these items all over the country at gun shops and gun shows. It all boils down to the buyers and what they will pay. If a buyer wants to believe what he is told and does not do his research, then he will be taken in more often than not. It pays to know what you are looking at and ask questions. As for refinished firearms, to me they are worth what they would be as a shooter. Have to remember that a hundred years from now it might not be easy to tell if one was refinished or not, but there will always be somebody that can tell.
Kenneth G. Morgan0 -
In the past 30 odd years I have 'restored' pieces numbering in the low hundreds, almost exclusively flint and perc pieces earlier than the revolver era. I have never tried to make one look like new, rather make it look like it did when it was being used and cherished by its first owner/s. My clients have been mostly dealers and a few heavy duty collectors, numbering no more than maybe 15 individuals. Typical: lately I received an early flint fowling piece with a date on it in the American Rev period. It was an as-found gun, much used and abused during its later use life with crude field repairs. Client had paid $750 for it as-is and I restored it billing him $1500. He was much annoyed by what I had charged him - until a few days later a dealer offered him $4k for it, knowing that I had restored it. So much for the economics of restoration. 0 -
Granted restorations are feasible in a monetary way, but when does restoration end and refinish begin. If I take an old Colt Single Action Army along with a dozen pictures of the Sears Colt, send them out for restoration work and get back an exact duplicate to the pictures, is this restoration or refinish. Some might say refinish and then some might say restoration. It was in the metal all along but just took the right craftsman to bring it out. I believe that there is a place for restoration, but to me refinish is not the same as restoration.
Kenneth G. Morgan0
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