Close Range Birdshot: Penetration Test
Following some discussions on this forum as the whether birdshot was a good mankiller at ranges encountered inside the house in a self defense situation, I did some tests this morning.
I used a Stevens 20 gauge double barrel, with 28 inch barrels. The shot was Winchester 2 3/4 inch with #8 shot. All shots were taken with the muzzle 15 feet from the target.
It was questioned as to whether bird shot would penetrate a heavy coat. Rather than buying a $200 leather coat, I used Wolverine work boots. The sole was worn out, but the ankle part was pristine. These are high boots that go up 6 inches above the ankle. The leather is as thick as that on my leather jacket, and is backed with thick cloth. For a cloth coat, I used a heavy quilted "moving blanket", the type that U-Haul uses in moving vans. This is heavier than the heaviest winter coat. The cotton material is 3/8 inch thick, and when compressed is still 3/16 inch thick.
#1 Three pine 1x8s set up, with the quilt placed in front. The shot penetrated the cloth, and went through all three boards
#2 Three pine 1x4s were set inside the boot ankle. The shot went through the leather and cloth, and blew a hole through all the wood. The shot was stopped by the leather on the far side and did not exit, it was found rolling around in the bottom of the boot
#3 The second boot was shot in the ankle with no wood inside. The shot went right through both sides of the boot. The exit hole was a "rathole", very jagged, 3 inches wide.
#4 The quilt was folded twice. This gave four thicknesses of quilted cloth. This cloth target was 1 1/2 inches thick. The shot column blew all the way through the cloth.
Wood is not the same as flesh or gelatin, but we can use it to get an idea of penetration. Also, to get into the chest, a projectile must often get through a rib. Human ribs are about like spare ribs from the grocery store, maybe 1/2 inch thick.A shot that goes through 2 1/4 inches of wood would easily go through a rib.Looking at that boot I had the impression that if a man had been wearing it, he would have had his foot blown off. It is obvious that the little #8 shot, having easily blown through the leather, would have shattered the bone and caused massive damage to blood vessels, ligaments, and nerves. The surgeons would have had their hands full trying to save that foot.
These tests show that the 20 gauge with birdshot, at inside the house ranges, will penetrate the thickest winter coat, and have energy left over to easily deliver a fatal injury on a torso shot. The 12 gauge is obviously going to provide considerably more penetration. I learned of the lethal effects of birdshot while working 13 years as a paramedic. Ask any experineced street medic, not a desk driver at the state office, or any ER doc and you will find out how lethal bird shot is at close range.
I used a Stevens 20 gauge double barrel, with 28 inch barrels. The shot was Winchester 2 3/4 inch with #8 shot. All shots were taken with the muzzle 15 feet from the target.
It was questioned as to whether bird shot would penetrate a heavy coat. Rather than buying a $200 leather coat, I used Wolverine work boots. The sole was worn out, but the ankle part was pristine. These are high boots that go up 6 inches above the ankle. The leather is as thick as that on my leather jacket, and is backed with thick cloth. For a cloth coat, I used a heavy quilted "moving blanket", the type that U-Haul uses in moving vans. This is heavier than the heaviest winter coat. The cotton material is 3/8 inch thick, and when compressed is still 3/16 inch thick.
#1 Three pine 1x8s set up, with the quilt placed in front. The shot penetrated the cloth, and went through all three boards
#2 Three pine 1x4s were set inside the boot ankle. The shot went through the leather and cloth, and blew a hole through all the wood. The shot was stopped by the leather on the far side and did not exit, it was found rolling around in the bottom of the boot
#3 The second boot was shot in the ankle with no wood inside. The shot went right through both sides of the boot. The exit hole was a "rathole", very jagged, 3 inches wide.
#4 The quilt was folded twice. This gave four thicknesses of quilted cloth. This cloth target was 1 1/2 inches thick. The shot column blew all the way through the cloth.
Wood is not the same as flesh or gelatin, but we can use it to get an idea of penetration. Also, to get into the chest, a projectile must often get through a rib. Human ribs are about like spare ribs from the grocery store, maybe 1/2 inch thick.A shot that goes through 2 1/4 inches of wood would easily go through a rib.Looking at that boot I had the impression that if a man had been wearing it, he would have had his foot blown off. It is obvious that the little #8 shot, having easily blown through the leather, would have shattered the bone and caused massive damage to blood vessels, ligaments, and nerves. The surgeons would have had their hands full trying to save that foot.
These tests show that the 20 gauge with birdshot, at inside the house ranges, will penetrate the thickest winter coat, and have energy left over to easily deliver a fatal injury on a torso shot. The 12 gauge is obviously going to provide considerably more penetration. I learned of the lethal effects of birdshot while working 13 years as a paramedic. Ask any experineced street medic, not a desk driver at the state office, or any ER doc and you will find out how lethal bird shot is at close range.
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Sounds like some accurate results to me, and just think, with a double or pump, the first shell will definitly clear the path for the second.
A GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE.0 -
Sounds like some accurate results to me, and just think, with a double or pump, the first shell will definitly clear the path for the second.
A GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE.0 -
Sounds like some accurate results to me, and just think, with a double or pump, the first shell will definitly clear the path for the second.
A GUN IN THE HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE.0 -
I'm not sure what just happened with my pc, I guess it thought it was worth saying three times. sorry about that 0 -
tr - you can go back and DELETE the extraq entries!
Allen's test results were similar to tests I ran 10 years ago, however the results change dramatically when the range is extended to over 7 yards. My tests were using drywall with a penetration target on the far side of a double thickness of drywall (mounted on both sides of a 2X4 box) to guage danger to occupants on the other side of the wall. At 5 yards or less, severe damage to the other side target, 5 to 7 yards much less and over 7 yards only minor damage. I would have to find the tests for more precise data
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis0 -
Shootist- I was wondering about drywall. The possibility that the birdshot would not penetrate drywall is the reason a person would use birdshot in the first place. What gauge gun and what # shot were you using, do you remember? 0 -
Nice test, thanks for running it.
One other thought, a standard 12ga skeet load (1 1/8oz 3dram #9 shot, 1200fps at the muzzle) even if it didn't penatrate the clothing would be fairly lethal, just due to the trauma of 500gr of lead impacting at 1100+fps.
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.0 -
I kinda started this when I volunteered that my preference for home self defense was my old 870 loaded with 7 1/2 high brass bird shot. It is what I use and I believe it is better than an AR-15 for many reasons, including the litigation that would most likely follow protecting yourself in your own home.
I know first hand it is lethal. In 1969 my best friend was hit by an accidental discharge of a 20 gauge single barrel loaded with #8's from a distance of 20-25 feet. My good friend, Gary Brannon died that day on the way to the hospital.
Worry is the interest humans pay on the debt of miscalculation.0 -
I believe that using a birdshot load would probably be a dam good in-house load. If it didnt kill them on the spot, they would bleed to death very rapidly. Would be about the same as putting a person in a meat grinder!
Dustin K. Griffin0 -
Sounds like an pretty accurate test. However I will stick with my 12 gauge #4's to get the job done if the distance is greater. 0
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