Home Defense Pistol: Auto Vs Revolver
Hi Guys,
This is the first time I'm asking a question here. Actually I'm new to this site. My question - I want to get a personal defense handgun,
but also want it to be very accurate so I can use it at the range as well, and get impressive groups. I'd like it to be a modern weapon, with good relibility. It should also look and feel good, fire good, and be man stopper, and accurate.
Keeping all this in mind, Im debating between a .357 Mag (Taurus 608, 8 shot/ Smith&Wesson- any/ Ruger GP100) OR the Semi-Auto pistols (Baretta 96F .40 Cal, Sig .40/357 Cal, CZ-75 .40 Cal). {CZ, only because its cheap) Now first I've got to decide between a semi auto or a revolver. And then which brand should I go with? I know its a lot to ask for, and I'm totally in the lost land. But I'm sure there are many others out there who will also be helped with your Expert comments.
Thanks in advance! Rog
This is the first time I'm asking a question here. Actually I'm new to this site. My question - I want to get a personal defense handgun,
but also want it to be very accurate so I can use it at the range as well, and get impressive groups. I'd like it to be a modern weapon, with good relibility. It should also look and feel good, fire good, and be man stopper, and accurate.
Keeping all this in mind, Im debating between a .357 Mag (Taurus 608, 8 shot/ Smith&Wesson- any/ Ruger GP100) OR the Semi-Auto pistols (Baretta 96F .40 Cal, Sig .40/357 Cal, CZ-75 .40 Cal). {CZ, only because its cheap) Now first I've got to decide between a semi auto or a revolver. And then which brand should I go with? I know its a lot to ask for, and I'm totally in the lost land. But I'm sure there are many others out there who will also be helped with your Expert comments.
Thanks in advance! Rog
0
-
Best Home defense weapon: Pre-ban AR-15 w/ collapsable stock and baynet (fixed stock and no baynet if post-ban AR-15), 11.5 inch barrel (w/ permanently installed extension to make it 16"), night scope and loaded w/ 30 fragmenting rounds.
1. You can see the scumbag in your house and he cannot see you. You can also get a positive ID on what you are shooting. The cost is $500.00 for 1st Gen scope.
2. The high velocity fragmenting rounds from a short barrel do not have the over penetration characteristics of a 9mm or 00 buckshot. They have the velocity to properly fragment up to about 12-15 meters. After that, they will rapidly loose velocity when passing though a sheetrock wall due to the light weight bullets. The fact is, with a night vision device, you will probably not have an over penetration problem.
Now, the problem is fitting this 34" overall AR-15 w/ a night scope in a place that is easily available, yet inassecible to the children. I can't supply allt he answers. Maybe a custom headboard on your king sized bed!!
If not, then probably a 12ga riot shotgun or a 9mm glock.0 -
Now, the problem is fitting this 34" overall AR-15 w/ a night scope in a place that is easily available, yet inassecible to the children. I can't supply allt he answers. Maybe a custom headboard on your king sized bed!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Can sure tell you never faced a REAL burglar. It's not a movie.
What next? A dress code for the occasion?0 -
Amen Darrell![;)]
Self defence is an ablsolute and natural right. Keep your powder dry! J. Rau, Alaska0 -
If the fellow survives breaking in the home and decides to get an attorney to sue your pants off, Ill bet you wish you would have used a simple weapon that the jurors could identify with. It's hard to be sympathetic to a defendent when he appears to be Rambo. I'll stick to my 870 and high brass 7 1/2 bird shot. At 20 feet it is deadly or disabling and it is my "hunting" gun (sort of). I like the idea of the AR-15 but truely think its use would be a litigation nightmare.
Worry is the interest humans pay on the debt of miscalculation.0 -
Wrong, 71/2 shot MAY be deadly IF YOU GET A CONTACT SHOT. It won't even make it through heavy clothes after it leaves the muzzel. If you are going to use a shotgun for selfdefence (urban) use a shot that you would use for geese. (steel or lead) My favorite is 2 3/4 in BB (lead).[V]
Self defence is an ablsolute and natural right. Keep your powder dry! J. Rau, Alaska0 -
1st thing,my post was partly tongue in cheek, partly serious. The serious part is that in most self defense situations, you are firing blind in your house without positive ID of the target. Also, you face over penetration with 9mm, .357/.38 and 00 buckshot.
As far as a black weapon: I would take my chances with a civil jury because the guy probably would not survive two to three chest shots with fragmenting 5.56mm ammo. Also, you could use mil-spec ammo for this as it is designed to fragment so you would not have to use some special anti-personel rounds that a jury might not like. Also, my theory is that if a scumbag survives, he might bring his gang bangin' buddies back for round two. Bad idea if you are their target.
I have never faced a burglar and if I do, it will be with my Beretta 380 or my Glock 17 in hand b/c I keep my pre-ban AR-15 & bayonet I the gunsafe. I can guarantee you that I would be unable to open my gunsafe in the dark and even if I was stupid enough to turn the light on, I would probaly not be calm enough to turn the dial and put the combination in.
I will tell you this, I have heard someone rattling my front door and I have heard the loud, unexpected sound in the middle of the night and I have grabbed the Berretta or the Glock to go investigate and there are not many other experiences that have had me as nervous and as jumpy. It is one thing to talk about this, but when you really believe someone, that you do not know, has entered your dwelling, it is nerve wracking.
A night vision device would have allowed me to view the interior in detail.0 -
Jim Rau- 7 1/2 shot is deadly at inside the house range. I have seen several people hit with it and the relatives were making plans for the funeral. Once a killer dog was trying to kill my little beagle and I shot the misguided Chow with a load of #8. This was at 30 feet and it blew the dog down to the ground. One shot destruction from a 20 gauge.I am interested in your assertion that it will not penetrate heavy coats. Have you ever seen it demonstrated against heavy coats? Of the dead guys I saw I can't remember that any were wearing heavy coats. 0 -
See my post on the 00 buck shot thread. You are wrong. Just because it worked 'some time' does not mean it is the correct load. I have seen deer killed with a 22 LR, but that is not the correct load for deer!!
seancody,
YOU SHOULD NEVER BE "FIREING BLIND" IN ANY SITUATION AS A CIVILIAN.
In the military, you use full auto (spray and pray) in a close ambush to try and gain fire supperority, but at NO TIME IN A SELFDEFENCE SITUATION DO YOU PULL THE TRIGGER WITH OUT HAVEING AN IDENTIFIED TARGET!!!
Self defence is an ablsolute and natural right. Keep your powder dry! J. Rau, Alaska0 -
This is in response to seancody, using an AR15 with mil spec ammo, which of course is Full Metal Jacket, would be REALLY bad in a home. Unless of course you live without any neighbors, or kids in other rooms. FMJ AR15 ammo penetrates, and keeps penetrating. The really soft point or hollow points may not be a real bad idea. However I think that might even be a bit much. Also, at room distances, 7 1/2 shot would be very deadly, and I am sure able to penetrate a coat. Just my thoughts.
Alleno0 -
Hey guys, I started this thread yesterday....Scroll down and read prior comments that I got. Mostly everyone recommended a revolver for home defense. I guess a .357 Mag would be enough for most cases. My personal choice is a semi auto though (just cuz I like to shoot it)My caliber of choice would be .40Cal, or a .357Sig, but I'll stick with a .40 Cal for home defense. It has faster velocity than a .45, and more energy than a 9MM.
As for the AR-15, it doesn't sound a very bad idea. Not that I'd use it - unless as Allen mentioned, the bad guys comes back with a gang. Also in his support I'd like to say, during my research on the most ideal weapon, I found a site called AR15.com, and according to them this is the most suitable weapon in any condition. Although there are weapons for every job, but if one could have ONLY ONE weapon, an AR-15 was recommended. Now do I agree with it, possibly! Buy I'd still use a .40 Cal handgun for home defense.
--My 2 cents--
Let's keep our guns and keep country safe from lunatics, domestic or foreign!!!!!0 -
Sorry I wrote Allen, I meant Seancody..
Let's keep our guns and keep country safe from lunatics, domestic or foreign!!!!!0 -
You can break the laws of man and get away with it, but you can't break the laws of physics and get away with it.
Go ahead and use 7 1/2 shot, if you have a life treatening situation and don't survive, others will, hopfully, learn from your mistake.[xx(] Been there, saw that, done that. [:)]
Self defence is an ablsolute and natural right. Keep your powder dry! J. Rau, Alaska0 -
As a homicide investigator I've seen my share of shotgun wounds almost all (save police) were smaller birdshot. Few survived a torso hit. The concept that small shot won't penetrate clothing etc., is pure BS. The shot string at room range (up to 21 feet) is highly destructive and seldom surviveable. Here is why. 00 buckshot for example will make 9 wounds in a conventional loading. A surgeon can patch up a small amount of such wound channels in many cases unless a short range wound where the lead mass just tears up to much tissue and you can't stop the bleeding.
With small shot you have to worry about the AMOUNT of damage to blood vessels. A small #8 shot for example can hit or nik a blood vessel. It MUST be found and closed. Even a shallow wound presents a problem. BLEEDING. Remember the heart and lung are only 1-2 inches below the surface of the chest. So the surgeon has to clamp off and repair the wound while pouring blood and fluids into you to replace what you lost on the way to the ER. It's a lethal catch up game. The surgeon has to remove the pellets. EACH ONE can cause infection. Massive doses of antibiotics are given. Infection is as deadly as the bleeding. Another problem with small shot is emboli. A pellet can hit and slip into a blood vessel and take off for the brain, heart or other area causing a blockage or blood clot to form behind it. This is as deadly as any bullet and not uncommon.
The clock is running, you are bleeding and the OR team is working as fast as it can. Odds are you will LOSE. It's about time and the laws of physics. IF you survive you probably wished you didn't.
Lethality rate for all shotgun wounds to the torso is about 67% compared to 14% for all handguns.
Survival from shotgun wounds hasn't increased much with new medical technology. Most don't make the ER to be saved. In the riots of the 60's a lot of shotguns were fired at us from longer distances.
I saw officers flinch and become totally disabled for a few seconds to minutes from just a few birdshot pellets hitting skin. They said it was like a lit cigarette being put against your skin.
If you read the works of the International Wound Ballistics Assn you'd find this report.
Lead Shot Penetration in 10% Ordnance Gelatin
Dean B. Dahlstrom, Kramer D. Powley, Duncan MacPherson
I think you will have your heart broken. It clearly shows at up to
5 yards just about all sizes of shot from smallest to #2 shot are equally as lethal because of the mass holding together. Not many situations involve shootings beyond that range. Avg is about 11 feet seldom beyond 21.
Some of the police in Detroit ran out of buckshot and switched to various birdshot. I saw an officer run towards a looter and fire a low base round at him at about 35-50 feet. The looter had a white T-shirt and the back was INSTANT blood splatters and he went down screaming and did power spins on the concrete. We had to leave because of excessive sniper fire, but I am sure the mans looting days were over for a long time.
Small shot will EASLY blow thru walls at room range. There is considerable speed dumping but it is far from anemic when it comes out the other side.
You might wish to review some of the scientific journals on the issue. Hell, even bean bag rounds are KILLING people. And they weren't even designed to do that.0 -
Killing is not the point. Stopping is. A 22 RF is deadly, but will not stop an aggressive human w/o a central nervesystem hit!! Yes, the bad guy may EVENTUALY bleed to death and die if you use the small shot. If you don't STOP HIM he can still kill you BEFORE HE DIES. You need to get to the vidals NOW, not wait to have him die in the ER. Just use the larger bird shot and get the quicker results.(#2 at a min) If it is a revenge shooting than use the small shot and watch him suffer, but make sure he is not armed or he may get the last shot, in to your heart. This not about killing it is about stopping the bandit before he injures or kills you.
Darrell,
A lot of this common sense. I have a lot of experance in the same areas you do. BUT are you a hunter? You can learn alot from hunting. What you say is not true, ie: it don't matter if you us a non-expanding bullet or an expanding bullet, and the shot size don't matter when you shot some one. As I said before, anyone you has shot any thing with both knowes you cause a more tramatic wound with an expanding bullet. If it don't matter what size shot you use on an aminal the size of a human then they need only to make 7 1/2 shot to shoot (hunt) any animal. It is common knowlage to those that shoot shot guns at game that the small shot DOES NOT PENATRATE DEEP ENOUGH TO KILL LARGE ANIMALS Q U I C K L Y. Sure, they may die eventuly, but that don't put any meat in the pot and it don't stop a determined (motovated) human. The idea is to QUICKLY stop the other guy, if he dies it is secondary.
Self defence is an ablsolute and natural right. Keep your powder dry! J. Rau, Alaska0 -
Jim Rau- can you put some data or first hand experience up here to buttress your assertion that small shot is ineffective? I doubt that you can. I saw 4 or 5 people hit with #7 or smaller shot in the torso while working as a Paramedic. There was no laying around and suffering for a while at the ER, every one of them was dead when we got to the scene. This was all close range stuff, inside the house. In fact #7 1/2 shot at 20 feet is the most lethal mankiller out there. I used #8 on the dog because I knew it would work, based on what I had seen as a Paramedic.Where are you getting your information? 0 -
Did you read my post about the guy who shot himself in the face? What you say is correct, they died. Where you there when these people were shot to see what there immediate reaction was? Some people are easy to stop, a little pain and it's over, BUT many criminals a more motivated, either psycalogy (sp) or chemicaly and if you do not casue DEEP trama to there vital organs they WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT.
I have seen several hundreds of gun shot wounds WHILE THEY OCCURED (mostly in RVN) and like you hundreds more as a cop for 26 years.
Use the bigger shot it will increase YOUR probabality of surviving a comfrontion with a MOTOVATED criminal.
Self defence is an ablsolute and natural right. Keep your powder dry! J. Rau, Alaska0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
16 comments