Lead Hardness vs Powder Burn Rage

Mr. Lobo

January 27, 2003 10:32

I was discussing lead build up in my handguns with a guy at the range that casts his own bullets. He said that if the lead is too hard that the powder burns past the side of the bullet and that cause's excessive lead build up. He suggested going with a softer lead that would fill the rifling and not allow any powder to seep by. After thinking about this for some time I was wondering if I should be using a slower burning powder for the Hardcast and Western Nevada lead bullets that I am now using. The thought being if the powder is burning slower it gives the bullet more time to get seated in the barrel so less burning powder would be able to seep by. I have been using 231 and just got some tight group to try out, both of which are rather fast burning powders. Thanks to those who respond.

Jim

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  mballai

  January 27, 2003 18:56

  Somethin doesn't smell right here and it ain't gunpowder. If you are getting excessive leading, your loads are probably just too hot. With magnums you might need to use a gas check bullet or go with a jacketed bullet.
  
  Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead

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  Iconoclast

  January 28, 2003 03:15

  The "guy at the range" either is tired of being asked questions of this nature, enjoys telling yarns or is a strange sight with his neck disappearing between his buttucks. Recover and look at some of your fired bullets - you will clearly see the markings from the lands and grooves. The alloy(s) conform to the dimensions of the barrel. *IF* you were casting your own and *IF* you used the wrong design or sized them too small, then *MAYBE* (OK, likely) part of his diagnosis would be correct. I have *solid steel* projectiles in my collection used accelerate barrel wear for weapons testing. Even these will show the lands / grooves markings on firing. Excessive lead build up occurs for exactly the opposite reason he offered: too *soft* for a given velocity. Reduce your loads or change bullet designs. And offer to sell your pal a nice ocean front condo in Omaha for his help.

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  Iroquois Scout

  January 28, 2003 04:50

  I disagree with some of the statements that were made in the previous posts. The man Lobo talked to at the range most certainaly did not have his head up his ass. The fact is that lead bullets can indeed be cast to hard. In revolvers, when the cartridge is fired, the nose of the bullet enters the forceing cone while the base of the bullet is still in the cylinder throat and the air gap between the cylinder and the forceing cone. While the nose of the bullet enters the rifled part of the bore the base is "sluged up" to seal the forceing cone and then swaged back down to groove diameter. If a bullet is to hard it will not fill the forceing cone completely and powder gass will erode the edge of the bullet base before the bullet can enter the rifleing and deposit lead in the bore. This phenomenon can also take place in auto loading pistols and in rifles, but to a lesser extent. Other factors that contribute to leading are excessive velocity that allows the bullet to strip out of the rifleing, the wrong type of bullet lube, usually a bullet lube that is to hard, not enough bullet lube, picking a bullet with not enough lub grooves and no protection for the base of the bullet. If a soft bullet were the only reason for barrel leading, then my black powder rifles which fire bullets cast 30 parts lead to 1 part tin up to a velocity of 1550 fps should plate the bore with lead after only one or two shots, however, this is not the case. I can fire a 50 shot match and there will be no leading in the bore. There is more to shooting cast bullets then casting them hard as nails and driveing them like hell.

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  Mr. Lobo

  January 28, 2003 05:55

  mballai, I am using 5.0 grains of 231 with either a 200 gr or 230 gr lead bullet. Per my manuals this is the starting load. I have even reduced this load to 4.8 grains of 231 and still had leading in my 1911. So I think that the use of "hot loads" is not my problem.
  
  Iconoclast, Thanks for your response.
  
  Iroquois Scout, I thought there might be some people that would agree with this person's opinion. He seemed to know what he was talking about but I always like to bounce it off the "Experts". Thanks for your response.
  
  I guess my idea about trying a slower burning powder does not hold water.
  
  Jim

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  mballai

  January 28, 2003 14:06

  Shooting cast bullets always causes more fouling than with a jacketed bullet. I also shoot cast bullets in some of my 45s and it takes me a bit longer to get the barrel clean. One thing you might want to try is National Bullet's copperized bullets. Essentially a light copper coating over the lead. Much cleaner than plain cast bullets and they are still reasonably priced.
  
  It's quite unlikely that commercial bullet makers would bullets that are too hard. This may not be true of those who cast their own.
  
  I don't think powder makes much difference. Most of my experience is with fast burning Bullseye and have never been able to discern that it contributed in any significant way to fouling/leading.
  
  Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead

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  Iconoclast

  January 28, 2003 15:22

  Scout, I guess I never cast 'em that hard or knew anyone who had, but your comment does make sense. I could well be wrong. Not for the first, and surely not the last, time. Comparing rifles and revolvers is admittedly an apples and oranges situation. Thanks for your insight.

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  mcbab

  January 28, 2003 16:14

  Make sure they have enough lube. It makes a difference in leading. Another thing to consider is the the bullet size and bore diameter.

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  Mr. Lobo

  January 29, 2003 05:46

  Thanks again to all who responded.
  
  Jim

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