Button rifling? whats the diff?
Can anyone tell me what the difference between button rifling
and standard rifling or whatever it's called
and standard rifling or whatever it's called
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Button the most common today, the other is forged
Too long to explain here but this link is good
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_bulletIDrifling.htm
SOLD MY COW SO I DON'T NEED YOUR BULL [;)]0 -
Among the ways of rifling barrels are: cut, broach, button, cation, hammer forge. This list is probably not all inclusive. The following BRIEF descriptions will give you a place to start your own research.
CUT rifling uses a cutting tool to scrape grooves, one at a time, into the ID of a barrel's bore. Each pass of the cutter through the tube removes a minute amount of metal.
BROACH rifling is, essentially, a quick-and-dirty version of cut rifling. The broach has several cutting edges arranged that when the cutter is forced through the tube to be rifled, a groove (or all the grooves) is cut in one pass.
BUTTON rifling uses an extremely hard tungsten carbide plug-like "button" whose axial profile is a mirror image of resulting rifling. It is pushed or pulled through the bore to "iron" grooves into it.
HAMMER forging smashes a short, squat, holed cylinder with many mechanical hammers to reshape the cylinder into a barrel as it simultaneously hammers in rifling grooves and lands.
CATION rifling is the use of chemicals to erode/corrode metal from the ID of a tube, the result of which is rifling. It's much like acid etching.0 -
cut and button are your most popular as has been stated. the button rifling leaves the least amount of stresses in the metal, other than a cut rifled barrel, which leaves NO stresses. The hammer forging leaves more stressess than button rifling, but most are so hard, that it doesn't show up until they are really hot.
Cut rifling lasts the longest, followed by button and hammer forged rifling. The caveat is that the manufacturer that cut rifles it's barrrels has to be very knowledgeable and experienced in order to correctly index the barrel when cutting each individual groove. Any mistake, however small, will cause a change in rifling twist for a certain length of the barrel, and will affect bullet stabilization. Cut rifle barrels should be bought from only reputable manufacturers,....like Kreiger barrels.
I'm a man,....but I can change,.....If I have to,......I guess.0 -
JustC furnished some questionable information.
??????"the button rifling leaves the least amount of stresses in the metal, other than a cut rifled barrel, which leaves NO stresses."
This is untrue. All methods of rifling, with the possible exception of CATION, induce stress. To the best of my knowledge, barrel makers stress relieve barrels before offering them for sale.
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??????"The hammer forging leaves more stressess than button rifling, but most are so hard, that it doesn't show up until they are really hot."
Refer to previous response.
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??????"Cut rifling lasts the longest, followed by button and hammer forged rifling."
Boy oh boy, I would really like to see the raw data on this assertion. Apparently, barrel deterioration when using smakeless powder and [gilding metal] jacketed bullets is a function of heat erosion -- that is, propellant gases are so hot that barrel metal ID loses integrity. The happens first near the chamber where gas is hottest. You can conclude that, barrels having been made identically except for chambering, a .30-.30 will shoot accurately longer than a .308. And a .308 longer than a .300 Weatherby. And a .300 Weatherby longer than . . . you get the idea.
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??????"The caveat is that the manufacturer that cut rifles it's barrrels has to be very knowledgeable and experienced in order to correctly index the barrel when cutting each individual groove. Any mistake, however small, will cause a change in rifling twist for a certain length of the barrel, and will affect bullet stabilization."
Although I agree, the measure of a good barrel is consistent, predictable accuracy. You are more likely to get accuracy from meticulous work.
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???"Cut rifle barrels should be bought from only reputable manufacturers,....like Kreiger barrels."
And you are more likely to get meticulous work from reputable barrel makers, regardless what method of rifling they use. I am unfamiliar with Kreiger barrels. If they have been in business for, let's say, more than five years, they almost certainly make good barrels. Bad news travels quickly. If we've heard none, there ain't none.0 -
as far as stresses in the cut rifling barrel
Barrel Making
We rifle by the single-point cut rifling process. Although our machines are state of- the-art; the process itself is the oldest and slowest method of rifling a barrel. The cutter removes .0001 inch or 100 millionth of an inch at each pass; thus taking several hundred passes to rifle a barrel. This method produces perfect concentricity between bore and groove, a very uniform twist rate, and induces no stress into the steel. This is why we can gain all the benefit of...
That is directly from the Krieger barrel website. They stress releive the metal BEFORE cutting them. If they contained stresses afterward, they wouldn't be winning benchrest matches.
and from the Lilja barrel website;
Cut barrel makers sometimes will contour a barrel before it is rifled. Since their method does not introduce any significant amount of stress to the steel it is not necessary to stress relieve the steel through heat treating
That is from two of the higher quality barrel websites in the shooting sport.
as far as CATION rifling method, here are Dan Lilja's thoughts:
There is also some work being done with chemically rifled barrels, similar to an EDM process. However, I haven't seen a barrel made by this process that looked to be of suitable quality for match shooting.
Dan Lilja's experience with hammer forging stress vs button rifling;
Rifling
Hammer forging is used by many large firearms companies. The bored barrel steel is hammered around a steel rod that has a reverse image of the rifling. Machinery for hammer forging is very expensive. "About the only advantage of hammer forging is the high rate of production," Lilja said. "Because of all the pounding, though, a hammer forged barrel has lots of stress in the metal."
from another of Dan's articles;
Rifle barrels made using the hammer forge process contain a tremendous amount of stress. This explains why some barrels on mass-produced factory rifles will walk their shots as those barrels heat from firing.
Dan lilja's experience with rifling indexing changing during the process;
Lilja considers a constant rate of rifling twist throughout the bore extremely important to accuracy. If the twist decreases, a bullet traveling down the barrel is not fully supported and has a chance to yaw, or wobble, while it's still in the barrel. Yaw is when the nose or base of a bullet spins around its center.
Hence,...my explanation Cut rifling=no stress
Button rifling=less stress than hammer forge
Hammer Forging=lot's of stress
This can all be verified at the Kreiger website www.Kreigerbarrels.com
as well as the Lilja site www.riflebarrels.com (look under the articles heading)
Here is the quick and dirty way,...go to a benchrest match and ask. Not a shoot what you brung match,... a match with shooters who are record holders and shoot around the country all year long.
Obermeyer barrels were long reguarded as the best in the world until Boots Obermeyer retired. I hear they are being produced to his standards by another company. His barrels would bring up to $500 and $600 just for the blank with no chamber and crown or threads. His barrels have been proven to outlast button rifled barrels, due to his pefect indexing of the cutting and stress free metal. Ask any competitor who has been in the sport for 20yrs and they will tell you Obermeyer cut riflied barrels were always at the top of the heap. Now with the super-magnums and people who are shooting out to 1500 and 2000yds, the price of a cut rifled barrel which will be eroded quickly by the intense heat from the overbore super mags, the cost is foregone and a lot of button rifled barrels are used more often. My info is from competitors who have been in the shooting sport for decades and is backed up by the articles written by 2 of the most respected barrel makers in the country. It's OK if you don't agree.
I'm a man,....but I can change,.....If I have to,......I guess.0
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