Converting Pistol to Rifle and Back Again
I have seen this topic answered by several people on several different boards and the answer never seems to be the same. Is it legal to convert a handgun into a rifle and then back to a handgun?
I see the kits for making 1911's and Glocks carbines. Anyone have anything in the way of a ruling from the ATF addressing making them carbines and then back into pistols? I ain't looking for no second guesses, don't respond unless you have a real good idea, or can site a reference. Too many people here just throw out an opinion without any real knowledge of the actual law.
How about the M11/9 carbine length upper with a shoulder stock? It wouldn't take much to put a carbine upper on an M11/9 and adding a shoulder stock. But what about changing it back again? Suppose you had the M11/9 pistol, along with the carbine upper and shoulder stock. You would be in possession of everything it took to make a short barreled rifle, but if you had the carbine upper, and only assembles it that way, would there be a problem?
Or, suppose you owned both an M11/9 pistol and an M11/9 carbine, both guns complete. Or suppose a dealer had both the pistol and the carbine in his shop. Assuming the dealer could legally own both at the same time (could he?) would it be legal to sell both the carbine and the handgun to the same person at the same time? Anyone could swap out some parts and end up with a short barreled rifle. But as long as you didn't really do it, would there be a problem?
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
I see the kits for making 1911's and Glocks carbines. Anyone have anything in the way of a ruling from the ATF addressing making them carbines and then back into pistols? I ain't looking for no second guesses, don't respond unless you have a real good idea, or can site a reference. Too many people here just throw out an opinion without any real knowledge of the actual law.
How about the M11/9 carbine length upper with a shoulder stock? It wouldn't take much to put a carbine upper on an M11/9 and adding a shoulder stock. But what about changing it back again? Suppose you had the M11/9 pistol, along with the carbine upper and shoulder stock. You would be in possession of everything it took to make a short barreled rifle, but if you had the carbine upper, and only assembles it that way, would there be a problem?
Or, suppose you owned both an M11/9 pistol and an M11/9 carbine, both guns complete. Or suppose a dealer had both the pistol and the carbine in his shop. Assuming the dealer could legally own both at the same time (could he?) would it be legal to sell both the carbine and the handgun to the same person at the same time? Anyone could swap out some parts and end up with a short barreled rifle. But as long as you didn't really do it, would there be a problem?
To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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How about the T/C Contender? It is designed to do just what you say. 0 -
I am putting my 2 cents in even though I don't know for sure... Sorry!
Wouldn't a gun that is made and licenced as a pistol always remain a pistol? I realize there are specifics on shotguns, etc that limit barrel length and such, but obviously no matter what you do to a pistol to make it more like a rifle, in the end - wouldn't it still be a pistol (a pistol with a longer barrel, and a stock)? I mean it isn't like you change the serial number or model number when you added rifle-like stuff, so if you changed back, how would they be the wiser?
It doesn't matter what you shoot, just shoot it well...0 -
Boeboe I don't respond to anything on this forum by just throwing out an opinion- unless you ask for my opinion- which I doubt you ever will from me! There is no regulation to prevent you from converting a pistol into a rifle, although the reverse (a rifle into a pistol) is prohibited. If you add a shoulder stock to a pistol you MUST add a 16"+ barrel, otherwise you have just made a Short Barreled Rifle and are subject to the $200 NFA Tax (the are exceptions for certian C&R guns like Lugers).
As to your M11; if your upper has a 16" barrel attached you can add the shoulder stock. If you change back to a pistol lentgh barrel the stock MUST come off. There was a BATF ruling several years ago that did away with the old pistol with the ability to accept a shoulder stock automatically being a short barreled rifle- whether you had the stock or not. That is why you will see some older Lugers with the lug ground off the grip- it was done to make the pistol legal way back when. Possession of a pistol shoulder stock is NOT treated the same way as possession of certain machinegun parts (like a drop in auto sear) and an AR-15 rifle. Just don't go poping that stock on a pistol with a short barrel.
Many years back (30+) there was a neat little conversion for a tiny Unique pistol that turned it into a rifle by used the pistol's frame as the rifles grip assembly. You just snapped the frame into the rifles barreled action, complete with wood stock, and fired away. When you were finished you pulled out the frame, and the slide back into place and you had a pistol again. You then went on your way- no problem at all.
Mark T. Christian0 -
Mark, so what you're saying is, it's okay to own the pistol, with a carbine length upper and shoulder stock not attached, and then attach both the carbine upper and stock, and at a later time remove both the stock and the upper and replace it with a pistol upper. In other words, take an M11 pistol, turn it into a rifle, then turn it into a pistol again, as long as you always had a legal configuration.
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0 -
Boeboe, as long as you keep that pistol in a legal confifuration you are violating no law or regulation. Just make sure that you have a rifle length upper to go with that shoulder stock. You know Boeboe, you could just file a ATF Form 1, pay the $200 NFA Tax, and do anything with the shoulder stock/barrel length you please (you live in a "free state" don't you?). Have you discovered a way to convert that M11 into another BM-59? I thought you were only interested in high end items? I am disappointed.
Mark T. Christian0 -
I have read that if you buy a T/C contender as a rifle then it cannot be converted into a pistol,legally.You can buy the pistol version and convert it into a rifle.This is all hearsay and I do
not have a clue on what is correct but I would love to know.
"It was like that when I got here,I think"0 -
4Wheeler, you are correct. Federal law prohibits a person from making a rifle into a pistol- you simply cannot do this. You can however turn a pistol into a rifle. You cannot take a Remington 700 action that was once a complete rilfe and tun it into a pistol, you would have to purchase a bare receiver (never assembled). You can however take a Remington XP-100 pistol, add a 16" barrel and make yourself a rifle- I've seen this done and it is perfectly legal. The entire reasoning (if there is any at all) behind this nonsense goes back to the gangster day of the early 1930's. With the powerful handgun cartridges available today the idea of turning a rifle into a handgun to construct some kind of "Super Pistol" is no longer a valid concern. But a law does not fade away just because it no longer makes sense.
Mark T. Christian0 -
SP is correct. As long as the gun was originally made as a pistol and is so registered, it can be made into a rifle. Then returned back to a pistol later. The key is keeping it mutually exclusive. If the long barrel is on it, it MUST have the stock. If the short barrel is on it, it MUST NOT have the stock.
If you mix the features, you will have either a short barreled rifle (pistol barrel, with stock) or a rifle without the legal overall length to qualify as a long gun (long barrel, but without the stock). Either way you must have the configuration correct or you have legal problems. And as previously mentioned, it must be classified as a pistol to start out with.0 -
Okay, so I thought of this after my initial post, but just wanted to throw it out hypothetically....
It's legal to change the configuration of an assault weapon by adding or changing the number of assault features it has.
If a person has a pre-ban M11/9, and puts a carbine upper with a fixed stock on it, it becomes a standard "non assault" rifle. But why couldn't a person legally take that pre-ban M11 and put on a 16" carbine upper with flash hider, bayonet lug, and if he wanted, a colapsable stock? After all, it was a pre-ban firearm in the first place, all you have done is change it's configuration.
Mark! What makes you think I have an M11/9 POS? I was just using it as an example, after all....
To err is human, to moo is bovine.0
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