C&R questions
I am considering getting a C&R license and am curious as to how many visits the ATF makes a year to C&R holders ?, and are they announced visits? and what do they look for ?
Thank's Guys
Jim
Thank's Guys
Jim
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A friend of mine just received his C&R and also received a bunch of yellow forms, ie: the ones like you fill out when you buy a gun. When he sells a C&R gun is he required to make the buyer fill one out and call in the background check?
Also, on the license it says it does not enable holder to engage in the dealing of curios & relics. If he buys a C&R gun and sells it for the same amount, ie: not making a profit, would this constitute dealing C&R's?
-Marcus
***When the Second Amendment falls, the First will be sure to follow.***0 -
Lets start with the "Yellow Forms" ATF F 4473 no your not required to fill one out and do a background check unless some local law requires it.
C&R is not a FFL Dealers license.
No you may not buy and sell at a profit. How many guns can you sell in one year, that's not clear. But say you wanted to sell of your collection
all at one time, you can do that.
Disposition of Firearms is explained in the book that came with the license
Don't Feed the Trolls
Grumpy Old Man
Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of All Those that Threaten it0 -
The C&R lic is good to recieve any weapons listed on the federal C&R register.
The C&R register contains, one of a kind collectables, single shots, machine guns, and cannon. The register runs the whole gamet, but the selection is limited and quite small.
The lic. is good for collectors to recieve C&R's only. They are not allowed to "deal in them", meaning buying & selling for profit.
The good thing about the C&R lic. is that you can get C&R machine guns and other restricted goodies, without having to pay the typical $200 NFA tax on transferable each NFA weapon.
Go to the atf website look for the C&R register to see what is out there, it will keep you busy for a while.
Walte0 -
There is a great deal of confusion about the C & R List (ATF P5300.11). A gun does not have to be on the list to qualify for C&R status. This is stated on page one of the list. I quote, "this publication is not all inclusive meeting C&R classification (ie, firearms manufactured at least 50 year prior to the current date)". That is all it takes- to be at least 50 years old. Other guns qualify as well if ATF clears them but if your gun is 50 years old it is OK. The problem in some cases is determining the age if some of that model are newer than 50 years. Then you need a list of date of manufacure by serial number or date code on the gun, or some change that determines the date. 0 -
My interpretation is that C&R guns can certainly be sold for a profit to improve your collection. I don't think selling 5 or 6 a year would get you in trouble as long as you do improve your collection and you have good record keeping to back you up, especially on the ones you sold. Tom
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who dont.0 -
I tried to post on this last night but it would not go through. There is nothing in the world to prevent a person from selling a firearm purchased with his C&R for more money than he paid for it originally- but don't get into the habit of turning guns for profit on a regular basis. The license is intended for you to add to your firearms collection and not to retire early.
I am a gun dealer and not a CPA, but I do have an excellent tax man, who happens to be a good friend an long time customer. According to my expert you can be one of three things: A DEALER, an INVESTOR, or a COLLECTOR. A dealer like myself wants to earn a living from firearms and this needs no explanation. An investor wants to turn a profit at some point from the sale of his firearms- the question here is how often does he turn these guns over? A collector is just a guy who wants to build up a nice group of Lugers or old Colt's. He'll buy them and hold onto them until he trades them off for something better. The collector could care less about making money, he just wants the correct gun for his collection. Take you choice of the three catagories and determine where you or your friend may fit in.
Here is the fastest way known to get into trouble with a C&R: You have a buddy who collects Lugers and he spots a nice one on an auction site. Your friend has no C&R because he "Don't wanna get my name on no list". He offers you $50 to order the Luger for him and then transfer it to him on a private party sale. RED FLAG! You are in very deep stuff right now- you are clearly using your C&R as a dealer and that is prohibited.
Your friend should have never received any Form 4473's from the BATF as only licensed dealers are required to use them- no one else is allowed. States like California with seperate background checks use their own forms- called Dealer Record Of Sale here- in addition to the ATF 4473. I am sure that any other state with simular background checks would also use its own form. A C&R allows you to receive NFA Weapons, but you still have to pay the transfer tax and use BATF Form 4 for transfer- including CLEO signature. Only licensed dealers (not collectors) who are Special Occupational Tax Payers are allowed to use BATF Form 3 and transfer NFA Weapons tax free, and only in the course of normal commerce, not for their own use. The only other way to get a NFA Weapon tax free is to inherit it- you then use BATF Form 5, but you still need the CLEO to sign off on the form. A C&R does not allow you to be a Special Occupational Tax Payer so don't bother to investigate that end run around any transfer taxes.
Mark T. Christian0
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