Does a .380 (9mm Kurz) meet 9mm CCW Qualifying?
In my state (New Mexico) we need to qualify for each caliber gun we want to legally carry. I qualified using a Ruger 9mm. Could a .380-9mm Kurz be considered a 9mm for CCW purposes. That is, if challenged by a LEO, would there be a question as to the .380 being a 9mm, as my CCW license says I'm authorized to carry?
Thanks.
The buck has gained considerable velocity by the time it hits my desk.
Thanks.
The buck has gained considerable velocity by the time it hits my desk.
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"9mm Kurtz" is the European designation for the .380 cartridge. You try to pass it off to a LEO as a 9mm Luger if he stops you, he's not going to buy it. Why chance losing your license? Requalify with a .380 if you want to carry one. 
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I agree with Rufe-Snow....
Captain Kirk, Tech Staff0 -
I wouldn't reccomend doing that and possibly lose your permit. Go and qualify with the .380.
A dead intruder cannot testify against you in a court of law!
Never argue with an idiot...They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience!0 -
A 9mm is a 9mm!
A .380 has always been known to me as a 9mm short.
As long as it has the word 9mm attached to it you should be fine.
The hell with the cops and their "let's do what ever we can to remove guns from honest citizens."
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If you qualify with a .357 are they going to take away your CCW for having it loaded with 38 specials? Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
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While technically a 9mm. Kurz IS a 9mm. "sized" caliber, and IT IS below the power level of a 9mm.Parabellum/Luger, why fiddle to pull a fast one unnecessarilly? Does your permit list the actual weapon to be used or just the caliber? Does it allow multiple weapons/guns to be listed. Years ago while in New Jersey, a similar setup was used and you had to qualify with every single gun you intended to carry. I even qualified with my Gwinn Firearms Bushmaster Pistol and my bolt action .308 Win. metallic silhouette pistol, along with my 8 3/8" barrel model 629 S&W. Alltogether I think I used to bring around ten different "handguns" to qualify with. The Chief of Police used to get a kick out of it, and stated that it was not that important what you qualified with, so long as you qualified. The state of New Jersey did not have a requirement that you needed a certified "training course" prior to the issue, hence the need to qualify at "their range" to show proficiency with the weapon intended to carry. The police officer/rangemaster/instructor who accompanied you to the range signed you off with the weapon/s qualified with in the "record". If New Mexico adheres to similar protocol, it wouldn't pay to try to fool them, just take the time to qualify. This will make it easier for the next applicant AND FOR THE UNFORESEEN OCASSION THAT YOU MAY ACTUALLY NEED TO DEFEND YOUR SELF WITH DEADLY FORCE. Other states like Florida (where I live now) issues a Concealed Weapon License, which is all inclusive and that means "anything that can be construed as a weapon", whether it is a knife or a sword, or a shotgun if you want to, SO LONG AS IT IS CONCCEALED. By the way you could apply and get a non-resident Florida Concealed Weapon License for use where recognized presently (30+ states) and do away with the "caliber registration" issue, and if you have a training course or military training (or police) you just send that in and it "shall be issued" to you. 0 -
ANSI (through SAAMI) sets standards for ammunition in the United States. This includes the names of cartridges. If the SAAMI standard calls for 9mm Kurz to be called .380 cal in the US, then the argument could be made that you are not using 9mm ammunition as defined by the US ANSI standard.
The bottom line is that you are taking a chance with you permit in order to avoid some short term inconvenience and a $5.00 reissue fee.0 -
Thanks for the advice. My question was not with the intention of being devious or avoiding the additional qualification steps. Just a technical I had as to proper definition of a "9mm", thinking that if the Kurz and Luger descriptions were not the legal issue or addressed in New Mexico statutes, but caliber was, than wouldn't a "9mm" in Europe be the same as a "9mm" in the USA? Just a beginners question!
For example, as my CCW instructor pointed out when going over the New Mexico laws, the definition of "caliber" is defined simply as "the diameter of the bore of a handgun". So as one of the above commentators alluded to, in New Mexico, if I qualified with a 357 but carry 38 shells, theoretically, in New Mexico I have not violated any law as the diameter of the bore of the handgun is the same. And I understand that NM LEOs realize the weakness in the law. Nevertheless, I wouldn't want to go through hiring an attorney to "test the law". So I did qualify separately with a 357 and also a 38, as well as the 9mm Luger, just to have the training certificate and license clear. Furthermore, in NM, the CCW license only has two specific definitions of handgun categories: a "semiautomatic" and one that is "not semiautomatic" No direct reference to revolvers.
I would not risk loosing my CCW and appreciate the sound wisdom and warnings to that effect. Thanks again.
The buck has gained considerable velocity by the time it hits my desk.0 -
Look at the sample NM license on this link (Packing.org)
Notice the various Cal listed.
9mm is listed and .380 listed as a seperate Cal.
Under Revolver 38 in seperate from .357
http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/new+mexico0
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